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| Posted By: nazdeck Posted On: May 2, 2004 Views: 953 | RE: Theories and crackpots...de ja vu!!! http://home.pacbell.net/skeptica/thecult.html |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 3, 2004 Views: 951 | RE: Theories and crackpots The above given site is indeed an excellent example of a crackpot site. It is filled with page after page of emotive nonsense - with a distinct lack of facts - about how Big Bang scientists repress the 'real truth' about the universe. God, it gets so boring hearing the same old crap time after time. Please would someone who believes in the global conspiracy theory give me a good reason why a scientist, when given a theory that contains proof that Einstein and co. are wrong, would not publish it? "NO! Take that new theory away, it contains proof that Einstein is wrong and that there was no Big Bang. It would make me the most famous man on the planet, a Nobel prize or two, fame and fortune, more respect than even Einstein! NO! Take it away, it might upset other scientists." Yeah, right. |
| Posted By: nazdeck Posted On: May 4, 2004 Views: 944 | RE: Theories and crackpots Quote: "Relativity has been measured to the limits of testability, and shown to be accurate to an accuracy of 20 parts per million, unprecedented accuracy and prediction." The question is definitely "whether general relativity is true or false" and it is definitely not ONLY a question of "level of accuracy". It is possible to be accurate for the wrong reasons! That is why alternative theories should be given just as much consideration! Also, your assumed requirement of mathematical models is based on the current laws of physics! It is very naive and inaccurate to assume that the current laws of physics (and current models) can explain everything and that some hitherto unknown processes (laws) are not also at work! |
| Posted By: nazdeck Posted On: May 4, 2004 Views: 940 | RE: Theories and crackpots Though I am just passing through, I will just make a few brief points: Quote: "There is no maths given, therefore no predictions that can be made and tested." I think it is very obvious that the site was not designed to present mathematical equations that can be modelled (just like yours does not)! It was designed, like yours, to present a possible point of view. I also noted it goes into great detail. It does present at least one formula (d/dt(mv) = q(E + v x B)) that can be tested. And it is several pages long and covers many aspects of the universe. It also gives simulation results, graphs, images, photos, explanations of models, detailed explanations of assumptions and so on. Ones mathematical ability does NOT count for more than common sense, historical research and empirical observations! Quote: "Who is it that claims to have this wonderful new theory? Have you ever heard of them? Has anybody? What respected scientists, that we have heard of, back this theory? What prestige scientific journal has published the theory with full approval and backing? Why, if it is really so wonderful, does it only appear on some unknown's private website?" Your second point has nothing to do with science, but is understandable. I do not think "wonderful", "amazing" or "awesome" are the right words to describe it. It is simply possible. Quote: "EVERY scientist would LOVE to be able to produce a new theory, it's what they spend all their lives trying to do!" So you acknowledge that when empirical evidence comes along that contradicts the premises of the BBT, you will have no trouble accepting a theory developed (and tested) using that evidence! I think it is a long way before we can draw any final conclusions about the universe. Best of luck with the BBT anyway. The more theories the better I say! |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 4, 2004 Views: 936 | RE: Theories and crackpots It is true that it's possible for a theory to be right for all the wrong reasons, Newton's law of gravity is a case in point. I do not agree however that this is a good reason to take alternative theories seriously. If these alternative theories really produced the goods, with hard facts, then they would not be alternative theories, they would be main stream. For 'alternative' read 'wrong' and it all makes perfect sense. Yes, of course theories are based on the current laws of physics, what else could they be based on? You said: "It is very naive and inaccurate to assume that the current laws of physics (and current models) can explain everything and that some hitherto unknown processes (laws) are not also at work!" I agree. I have never said otherwise. I have only said that every alternative theory I have seen so far is utter crap. Not the same thing is it? No, my site does not bother to print every detail of every accepted theory under discussion. There is no point, the details can be looked up anywhere, even in school books. Alternative theories need to explain themselves precisely as they are not in the public domain. If no one has seen the 'facts' or the maths, so how can we judge them? And yes, I know that stupid site you gave shows graphs and other stuff, but we all know its nonsense. If it were true how come its totally ignored? Oh, yeah, I almost forgot, global conspiracy! By the way, if the 'electric sun' theory were correct, you would have a hell of a job explaining how a nuclear power station works! Electric sun my arse! You say: "So you acknowledge that when empirical evidence comes along that contradicts the premises of the BBT, you will have no trouble accepting a theory developed (and tested) using that evidence!" IF ever a theory came along that replaced the BBT of course I would accept it. Ignoring the truth does not make it go away. I just do not see the point in pursuing really very silly ideas that do not make any sense at all when we already have in place the BBT which does not suffer a single problem. I think some people suffer the same problem as Carl Rolfe, they think that because the BBT does not have EVERY DETAIL down to a precise measure, it means it must be wrong. This is nonsense of course. I can say for instance that the pole star is a very hot ball of gas, I do not have to calculate its precise temperature to prove my theory correct. Its a hot ball of gas whether its surface temperature is 6000C or 7000C. If someone then comes along and says that because there is some uncertainty in its temperature I should accept their theory that its really just a very tiny sparkly diamond, I feel justified in telling them where to get off. That is pretty much the level of intelligence shown in the Plasma Universe theory. A heap of unmitigated crap. Stop and think about it. If that theory were really any good then why is it totally ignored? |
| Posted By: Darth Vader Posted On: May 4, 2004 Views: 931 | RE: Theories and crackpots Nature knows better that any person on this planet, including Einstein!!! |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 4, 2004 Views: 927 | RE: Theories and crackpots Nature 'knows' nothing. |
| Posted By: Darth Vader Posted On: May 10, 2004 Views: 913 | RE: Theories and crackpots Nor do we 'know' nature, we merely 'think' we do! To 'think' is to 'think'! |
| Posted By: Darth Vader Posted On: May 10, 2004 Views: 910 | RE: Theories and crackpots Quote: "Stop and think about it. If that theory were really any good then why is it totally ignored?" Because tis unfamiliar and challenges familiarity! |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 10, 2004 Views: 911 | RE: Theories and crackpots You may think that, and I may think you're right, but that's only what I think. I think. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 11, 2004 Views: 907 | RE: Theories and crackpots You say that alternate theories may be right but are ignored by scientists all around the world (the global conspiracy theory) simply because "Because it is unfamiliar and challenges familiarity". How do you suppress the truth? How do you stop word getting out? How do you silence all these people? When, a few years ago, it was calculated (using new data) that some stars were older than the universe, the news was splashed out around the world loud and clear. This information showed that the BBT must be wrong! The information was NOT suppressed but was in fact welcomed, as is every new discovery, because something new will be learnt from it. It turned out they had got their sums wrong and the stars were not that old. The point is the news was not suppressed! (Just try suppressing the truth these days and see how far you get) That puts paid to the stupid global conspiracy theory. The so called 'alternative theories' such as the 'Electric Sun" and Plasma Universe' are rejected simply because they are garbage. As I said before: Please would someone who believes in the global conspiracy theory give me a good reason why a scientist, when given a theory that contains proof that Einstein and co. are wrong, would not publish it? "NO! Take that new theory away, it contains proof that Einstein is wrong and that there was no Big Bang. It would make me the most famous man on the planet, a Nobel prize or two, fame and fortune, more respect than even Einstein! NO! Take it away, it might upset other scientists." Yeah, right. See how daft that argument really is! |
| Posted By: Darth Vader Posted On: May 16, 2004 Views: 894 | RE: Theories and crackpots "That puts paid to the stupid global conspiracy theory." Ahahaa...conspiracy theory my ass!!! How d'ya suppress the truth? Do you suppress religion!? Is that the truth? Man, this is nuts! You suppress it with values! You've got values, aint ya! D'ya know they're th' truth? Are u religious about ur values? Respect, tolerance, dignity, responsibility, just ta name a few! No values have been scientific proven have they! Nasty!! You think a guy is going to tell his wife he cheated on her and wreck the marriage! I could draw comparisons with scientific theories! You want to know what I think CR should have done, attacked values! Enough of this crap! I'm finished here! This is time-wasting! Go and read a book about the attrosities of the nazis on the jews and then tell me if you think the truth is suppressed! Science and society and dependent! |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 17, 2004 Views: 892 | RE: Theories and crackpots I see. Scientists suppress the truth that the BBT is in fact wrong because of the values of society. Amazing. Explains everything. No scientists in the world wants ever lasting fame, fortune and respect by proving the BBT is wrong because of the values of society? Is it nice on the planet you come from? Are you very closely related to Carl Rolfe, or a hampster, by any chance? Perhaps I should accept that the 'electric sun' gets its heat from the 'universal plasma' and not by nuclear fission. In that case I should have a word with the guys at the atomic power plant and explain to them that there is no such thing as nuclear fission and that the sun is just a big light bulb in the sky. Why are there so many lunatics out there that cannot understand a scientific fact but are prepared to believe any crap posted on some imbeciles web site? The same author by the way who believes that the sun is very small and very close to the earth, just above the clouds! You can't talk to fruitcakes like that, not possible. |
| Posted By: Darth Vader Posted On: May 18, 2004 Views: 884 | RE: Theories and crackpots |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 18, 2004 Views: 371 | RE: RE: Theories and crackpots Relax. Take a happy pill. Try and make some friends, even just one would help a little. Chill out. Enjoy life. Dump the sponge and get a fully function brain. |
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