| THEORIES WITH PROBLEMS - IS INFINITY REAL? -> Earth infinity | Start A New Topic | Reply |
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| Posted By: Matt Posted On: Mar 23, 2006 Views: 1778 | Earth infinity If the big bang happened infinite times then the earth would be created an infinite amount of times. Because there would be an infinite amount of time for all the events that created earth to happen then no matter how small the odds they would happen an infinite amount of times. This means every single thing that has happened in this world will happen in another earth that is a complete replica in everyway. Also every thing that could have been different or changed will also happen. Say everything was the same except a coinflip that would happen an infinite amount of times. |
| Posted By: Laurus Posted On: Mar 24, 2006 Views: 1771 | RE: Earth infinity Nice thought,but don't you think there could also be an infinity of possibilities that things would never be the same,even over an infinite amount of time ? Furthermore,I would be cautious to use the concept of time for any thought "outside" the universe we are able to observe. |
| Posted By: OHLA! Posted On: Mar 24, 2006 Views: 1765 | RE: Earth infinity Who said the big band happened or happens an infinite amount of times????? |
| Posted By: Matt Posted On: Mar 24, 2006 Views: 1763 | RE: Earth infinity Me its just part of the theory and even if it didnt happen or happen infinite amount of times if the universe will last forever then the theory still holds true |
| Posted By: laurus Posted On: Mar 25, 2006 Views: 1760 | RE: Earth infinity Hi Matt,its not my intention to say you're wrong,but before jumping into hastely conclusions, consider this: A radioactive nucleus can desintegrate at any time between the time of formation and an infinite time.To have two identical universes* in your theory,all radioactive nuclei should at least desintegrate at exactly the same time.(this not even considering their possible positions in a universe) Now,the universe is abundant of (quantum)systems with an infinite degrees of freedom. Maybe each big bang can have an infinity of outcomes,by which I mean that the laws of physics don't have to be always exactly the same We don't know that for sure,but it's not impossible. So,unless you can prove the infinity of your theory is a greater infinity than these combined infinities,it's maybe better to use the word "idea" instead of "theory". (* potentialy identical) |
| Posted By: Matt Posted On: Mar 25, 2006 Views: 1757 | RE: Earth infinity Im not saying every big bang will be the same what im saying is given an infinite amount of big bangs than the big bang will eventually be a duplicate of this 1 |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Mar 27, 2006 Views: 1746 | RE: Earth infinity That is correct as it stands. Infinity does mean that every possible thing that can exist or happen will. Every single possibility of everything must happen, otherwise it isn't infinite by definition. |
| Posted By: laurus Posted On: Mar 28, 2006 Views: 1741 | RE: Earth infinity I'm not yet convinced.Each big bang is a unique event. So,at least in principle,they are countable and is it possible to set up a one-to-one correspondence with the natural numbers. Now,the possible outcomes of each big bang cannot be put in such a one-to-one correspondence if there is a continuum of possible (quantum)states. So it is possible to have an infinity of big bangs and yet none of them the same. Just think about it. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Mar 28, 2006 Views: 1738 | RE: Earth infinity laurus, I would like to reply to your last post but for the life of me I just can't make any sense of this comment of yours... "So, at least in principle, they are countable and is it possible to set up a one-to-one correspondence with the natural numbers. Now, the possible outcomes of each big bang cannot be put in such a one-to-one correspondence if there is a continuum of possible (quantum) states." What on earth does that mean? Keith |
| Posted By: Laurus Posted On: Mar 28, 2006 Views: 1730 | RE: Earth infinity It's not easy to explain it all in a few sentences,so I would suggest to read the chapter "the ladders of infinity" in Roger Penrose's book "The road to reality",before we would end up in meaningless discussions. There you'll find a good explanation of the different degrees of infinity ,and hopefully find out what I mean. Shortly said: the set of natural numbers is a countable infinite set and the set of real numbers is an uncountable infinite set. The infinity of the set of real numbers is greater than the infinity of the natural numbers.Doesn't seem to make much sense,but that's not my fault. |
| Posted By: Grant Posted On: Mar 30, 2006 Views: 1726 | RE: Earth infinity Keith Your quote "That is correct as it stands. Infinity does mean that every possible thing that can exist or happen will. Every single possibility of everything must happen, otherwise it isn't infinite by definition." LOL... Does that mean that there could of been a big bang which created life as it is today BUT with Telekinetic powers (If such a thing existed that is) ;) |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Mar 30, 2006 Views: 1722 | RE: Earth infinity laurus, I have read all of Roger Penrose's books, as far as I am aware, including that one. However, that is not the point, you are talking about the infinities of maths, why? |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Mar 30, 2006 Views: 1720 | RE: Earth infinity Hi Grant, Good point, but as I said all things POSSIBLE will occur, and as we know, Tk is just a school kid myth. |
| Posted By: laurus Posted On: Mar 30, 2006 Views: 1717 | RE: Earth infinity I don't understand your question very well Keith. Do you mean there is a difference between infinities of maths and infinities encountered in physics?? |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Mar 31, 2006 Views: 1709 | RE: Earth infinity laurus, I do not wish to appear rude but have to say I am surprised that you have asked that question. Of course there is a big difference between the world of mathematics and the actual physical world. For instance: in maths you can use that worn out example of saying that if you only move forward half the way to your destination, then move half the way of the remaining distance, and keep repeating this, you will never reach your destination. In maths this holds true because you can keep halving a number indefinatly. In the real world you reach a point where the distance is too small to measure. The maths may say you still have 0.000000000000000000000001 mm to go, but the edge of my shoe cannot be measured to that degree of accuracy and not being uniformly smooth I would in fact be touching my destination in places. I would have to say I had arrived as I could not move forward in any smaller increments and I was touching my destination already. This is all very obvious. So what is your point in asking? |
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