| THEORIES WITH PROBLEMS - IS INFINITY REAL? -> A Possibility | Start A New Topic | Reply |
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| Posted By: Kevin Posted On: Aug 9, 2009 Views: 1113 | A Possibility I've been doing some research, thinking, discussing this topic lately and it sheds some interesting light on the possiblity of infinity. The science of quantum physics is beginning to uncover some interesting facts about the nature of the universe, mainly the observation problem, in that the matter in which we observe the universe actually changes what we perceive (i.e. measuring a photon as a particle, we perceive a particle, measuring it as a wave, we perceive a wave). Moreover the CERN particle accelerator is beginning research to uncover the "Higg's Boson" which could confirm the existence of the "Higg's Field", which is hypothesized to be the absolute fundamental force in the universe. In simple terms, it is a universal, superfluid field that interacts with the vibrating "super-strings" which make up the most basic particles. It is thought that when the vibrations reach a certain frequency and resonance with the field with the Higg's field the super-strings gain mass and the energy collapses into matter. Now of course I'm no expert in any of this stuff and I'm sure I've stated much of the theory incorrectly, but this is the general idea and it seems modern quantum mechanics and other novel reseach is revealing this idea to be true. If this theory is in fact correct, what it means is that the universe is fundamentally a universal immaterial field of energy and that the material world we observe is only created through our perceptions. Basically, our brains are creating a 3-dimensional hologram of the universe through the information provided by our five dinstinct perceptions. So when our senses perceive information from the universe our brains are merely creating an interactive material representation of this information, but that does not mean this is what is truly there. We are just creating an image of the universe through the information received from a fundamentally immaterial universal field of energy. I know this sounds very strange and silly but if you really think about it, it sort of makes sense. Clearly, all humans share very similar physiological structures so therefore our perception of the universe is bascially the same. We all perceive a chair in bascially the same way because perceive the information in bascially the same way. But on the other hand a bat does not perceive the universe in the same way. The bat's perceptions of the chair is far different from our own simply becuase it's brain receives the information from the chair in a drastically different way. How can we really say the universe is a fundamentally material entity when it is perceived differently. As we have looked closer and closer at the fundamental particles of the universe all we keep doing is finding smaller and smaller pieces. We've gone from molecules, to atoms, to electrons, to electrinos, the quarks, etc., etc. There is no fundamental particle that makes up the universe because every time we observe the universe we create a perception of it, whenever we consciously observe the universe we always see something there. This is becuase the universe is an immaterial field of energy, or information, or consciousness or whatever you want to call it, that our brains constantly perceive and observe and make a material representation of. Finally coming back to infinity, this means that no matter where we observe we create a perception of a material universe so that the material universe is infinitely large and infinitely small. No matter how small of a place we look in the universe our consciousness will always create a representation of something being there and no matter how far out we look our consciousness will always create a representation of something being there too. There are no borders, there are no limits. We are simply a fundamentally immaterial entity that has continually and exponentially become more complex and more conscious that can observe and perceive itself. There is ultimate infinity everywhere because everything is fundamentelly immaterial and conscious beings are only creating a material representation of it. Yes, all of this sounds crazy and ridiculous but it is really a nice and interesting idea and if it was true and everyone did know it, how much better would life be? There would be no anger, no hate, no prejudice becuase we would realize we were truly and fundamentally all one. There would only be pure love and enjoyment and happiness. Let me know what you guys think of this idea and don't accuse me of being ridicilous because I do not "believe" this to be true, becuase that would be foolish. I believe it could be true but we need much, much, much more evidence to support it. |
| Posted By: Kevin Posted On: Aug 9, 2009 Views: 1112 | RE: A Possibility Sorry for the typo's. It took me a while to write this and I was too tired to re-read it right way. I hope it still makes sense! |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Aug 9, 2009 Views: 1104 | RE: RE: A Possibility Don't worry about the typos, it is clear enough what you are saying. Yes, we only know about the universe by what we perceive, but that means there has to be something there in order that we perceive it. If it were not real and solid then a rock falling out of the sky that I didn't see coming wouldn't hurt me, but as in reality it would it must have it's own existence independent of my perceptions. That goes for the rest of the universe as well. It's there all right, but what it's made of may be surprising. |
| Posted By: Kevin Posted On: Aug 9, 2009 Views: 1102 | RE: RE: A Possibility Yes, the rock does have a separate existence of it's own but my main point was that the rock is not fundamentally a material, solid, tan-colored, object that we perceive. It is fundamentally an intricate network of vibrating super-strings in a universal field of energy that our brain perceives as a rock. Of course, there are still physical laws in the universe so a rock thrown at a person will strike them and cause pain and an observer of the incident would see a rock being thrown at a person, but if the veil of subjective perception were somehow to be removed what would really be seen is not the material world we observe, but an immaterial field interacting with vibrational energy. So yes, every object does have it's own separate existence but our perception of the objects is only a mental representation of what is really there. But anyways this topic is about infinity and it this idea were to be true, it seems to follow that infinity would exist both infinitely small and large since no matter what we subjectively perceive we will our brains will create a mental representation. This can be seen in the Mendelbrot set, which is an object with perfect fractal geometry and infinite super-structure. Basically no matter how close or far you zoom in or out on the object there will always be structure. A good natural example is a snowflake or fern tree. I mean it seems like no matter how far we zoom into the universe we could always see smaller and smaller objects. But of course there is no single object that is infinitely large but maybe the material universe we perceive is, because as long as we are observing, something must be there. We can never see the "end" of the universe becuase as soon as long as we are observing and searching something will always be there. Yet like always, this is all philosophical nonsense and I suppose we can never really know the real truth. |
| Posted By: Kevin Posted On: Aug 9, 2009 Views: 1101 | RE: RE: A Possibility From now on I am typing these in Word so I can spell-check and re-read them easier lol. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Aug 10, 2009 Views: 1092 | RE: RE: A Possibility What you are describing is how the world looks through a microscope, seeing what an object's basic parts are, not how we perceive the object itself. Our perception is how we see a thing, not what it is made of. Looking through a microscope will eventually lead us to "seeing" the most basic element, whatever it may be, and there will be nothing to see past that because it is the basic element. Same with looking through a telescope, we can't see past the edge of the universe,the universe is all there is, as far as we are concerned. If we were able to visibly see the most basic fundamental particle, string, or whatever, we would actually see nothing because the whole universe would look the same, it would be a featureless fog, exactly as it was at the moment of the Big Bang. |
| Posted By: Kevin Posted On: Aug 11, 2009 Views: 1087 | RE: RE: A Possibility Well thats a good point and that is pretty much what I'm saying. We can never "see" the fundamental particle or string or whatever it is that makes us up becuase it is exactly that fundamental energy that allows us to make observations and perceptions. When we are observing smaller and smaller paticles all we are seeing is a mental representation of the information the fundamental energy is relaying to our brains. And so what I think is that we can always look smaller and smaller and smaller becuase the universe is fundamentally a field of continuous energy that no matter what will relay information to our brains and cause us to perceive that information through our senses. Imagine an observer wearing a special virtual helmet so that when looking at a flat wall from 20 ft. away, that is similar to the universe in that it is fundamentally a continous field of energy constantly relaying information to our brains (not like a t.v. with pixels of information but a truly continuous field of information) so that when we subjectively observe the wall we see the Earth from the perspective of standing on the Moon. As we move closer and close to the wall we zoom farther and farther in on the Earth but no matter how close we get to the wall we can never see beyond the information being transmitted to us and observe it's fundamental nature. The smaller and smaller we look all we are seeing is a smaller and smaller amount of information being perceived, since the wall is made of a field of continious information. An outside observer without the helmet could see the true nature of the wall and its continous field of information, but the person with the helmet on will never be able to, becuase he is locked into a subjective view of the universe and can only perceive smaller and smaller bits of the information, but not the field of information itself. Now take this example of the 2-dimensional wall and the observer with helmet and change the parameters to a 3-dimensional universe and an observer with a brain. It is the same thing. If the universe is fundamentally an immaterial field of energy then there is infinity becuase no matter how far in we zoom we will only be perceiving smaller and smaller pieces of the continuous field of information being relayed to our brains. But if the universe is "pixel-based" like a t.v. then you may be correct in saying that there is not infinity because the fundamental "pixel" would be the limit. But I do not think this is the case for several reasons including modern quantam mechanics, the research being done at CERN, and finally becuase logically it seems that there could be no fundamental "pixel" or particle becuase a particle with mass can always be divided into two pieces continuously and infinitely. So I am beginning to think that no matter what we could zoom infinitely to zero distance because any particle based, material universe could be continously divided into smaller and smaller pieces and any immaterial universe with a continous field of energy could likewise be infinitely zoomed in upon, since the information being transmitted to us is perfectly continous. Since we cannot escape from the "helmet" of subjective perception we can infinitely zoom in closer and closer to the fundamental particles or energy that make up this universe without ever being able to go small enough to see beyond the "wall" of information being relayed to us. |
| Posted By: Maxim Dvoytsin Posted On: Aug 25, 2009 Views: 1064 | RE: RE: A Possibility Hi,Kevin Exellent work.This is exactly how I understand the world.You've articulated it very well. |
| Posted By: Kevin Posted On: Sep 6, 2009 Views: 1054 | RE: A Possibility Thanks. I appreciate it! |
| Posted By: Jimmy Posted On: Jan 5, 2011 Views: 874 | RE: A Possibility Very interesting. And I actually understood what you guys were talking about! |