| POLL PROVIDED BY JOY: THE JOURNAL OF YOGA - DIVINITY SCHOOL RANKINGS -> Popular Vote | Start A New Topic | Reply |
| Post Info | TOPIC: Popular Vote |
| Posted By: psi (poll admin) Posted On: Aug 31, 2003 Views: 1008 | Popular Vote As of 8.31.03, the top ten divinity schools according to public vote are: 1. Candler/Emory 2. Duke 3. PTS 4. Yale 5. Fuller 6. Union 7. Harvard 8. Chicago 9. Notre Dame 10. Boston College I think this is a pretty solid and accurate top 10 although the rankings differ from the list I compiled for JOY. If I were to re-rank the schools, I would certainly take this into consideration. If you are a divinity school student or professor, would you kindly pass the poll on to others in your institution. I would like to get professional reputation feedback on the top 10. Also, any news that you think should be taken into consideration is greatly appreciated. Are there any schools not listed that you think should be? |
| Posted By: DivStudent Posted On: Jan 30, 2004 Views: 954 | RE: Popular Vote Why don't you make this a little more credible? A listing of such details like endowment, holdings, faculty publications, etc... |
| Posted By: psi (poll admin) Posted On: Jan 31, 2004 Views: 952 | RE: Popular Vote i attempted to address the factors that you mention in my comments and notes below the rankings. i certainly agree with you that endowments, faculty publications, etc. are of vital importance in assesments of programs. |
| Posted By: john Posted On: May 28, 2004 Views: 846 | RE: Popular Vote Meadville Lombard Theological School, though small, should be considered among the top 20. The students there generally are much more academically qualified than other ACTS schools in chicago (Catholic Theological Union, Garrett) and have direct access to those schools and are required to take classes with the M.Div/PhD students at U. of Chicago. (Garrett, for example, recently even formally severed its ties with Northwestern and has lost a few key faculty members. Perhaps ACTS --the Chicago consortium--should be ranked together and then separately based upon student quality. This list would include North Park, McCormick, CTU, Chicago Theological Seminary, Loyola's Pastoral Institute, Garrett, Lutheran-Chicago, Meadville, Seabury-Western, etc. There are big differences between these schools, some have joint programs, but all of their couses are accessible and recognized by each other. Meadville is the only one connected to Chicago. U of Chicago is the only one which isn't--though MDiv students there are encouraged to take classes through ACTS, and they are financially supported to do so.) I would rank Drew higher, as Drew has had a much better rate of placing PhD students than many institutions above it. Drew also has a significant Eastern influence to it, as Robert Corrington, Charles Corrington, and Wesley Ariagiah all teach there. They even had a seminary class on Sri Aurobindo recently. Finally, Drew is considered the cream of the crop among United Methodist Schools--largely because of its good PhD programs, size, quality of students, and it is more diverse than other "mainline" seminaries. I question Princeton's high ranking. Sure, they have money and attract top students, but diversity and campus tolerance is a real issue there. Theologically and philosophically speaking, their faculty are not intellectually diverse and seem a bit confused in the face of recent philosophical developments in postmodernism (I was just there for a conference about a month ago and the teachers I encountered were very guilty of a very selective reading of recent philosophy). Union is also sacred ground, but, they have had serious financial difficulty. I don't know about now, but a few years ago, they weren't even accepting PhD students into their programs. Lutheran School of Theology in Philadelphia seems to have been snubbed. Also, Willimette Institute could be included as "progressive": it's a growing Baha'i institution. |
| Posted By: john Posted On: May 28, 2004 Views: 843 | RE: Popular Vote more... Reading again thru the rankings, it's important to mention the faculty in medical humanities at Drew also. Perhaps a more accurate ranking would be like the philosophical gormet report, which lists by concentration. For example, one can't really compare Dallas or Roberts to Harvard. Yale and Virginia, however, are similar in their approach and could be compared. Also, you should know that Syracuse recently nabbed John Caputo from Villanova, and Chicago has made Jean-Luc Marion a full-time member of the Divinity School (previously he was part time in the philosophy dpt). Mark C Taylor is visiting at Columbia. Wesley Theological in DC is rumored to have named Joseph C Sprague as a Bishop in Residence. John |
| Posted By: psi (poll admin) Posted On: Jun 2, 2004 Views: 829 | RE: Popular Vote John, Thank you for your insights. I found your comments especially helpful. I think Drew could be ranked higher, perhaps above BC, but I am still reluctant to put Drew at the top of United Methodist schools although you present a convincing case. I am pleased to hear that they recently offered a seminar in Aurobindo and have faculty with specialties in eastern thought. To my mind, this is long overdue and future rankings will place more emphasis on this outlook. Princeton, Emory, Duke and Yale seem to still be a bit behind in this respect. Their religion departments seem to pick up the slack quite nicely however. Good to hear that Marion is now full-time at Chicago. He is one of the best theologians/philosophers in the country. Interesting to see your comments about Princeton. I do see some serious room for improvement, and as you say, they may not deserve such a high ranking. Anyone know further about Union's financial situation? I recently saw Karen Armstrong speak there, actually on C-SPAN or something, so they still continue to attract some of the best and brightest. With close connections to Columbia, Union is still one of the top places for theology in the country. I will have to take a closer look at Meadville. I am not too familiar with their programs. And finally, breaking programs down by specialty could be particularly useful to students who are fairly clear in their intended area of research. If I have some more time, I will try to put something together along such lines. Thanks again for your comments! |
| Posted By: Paula Posted On: Dec 14, 2004 Views: 668 | RE: Popular Vote As a graduate student at one of the "Lucky 7" I see some serious issues with the more "official" rankings. First off, there is a quite a bit of misinformation and confusion on the part of the ranker. For example, the ranker speaks of the U of Chicago Div School being augmented by "one of the best religion departments in the nation," however even someone with a modest familiarity with the field would knows that Chicago has no religion department! The Divinity School is the only "religion department" at the university. Problems like this extend throughout the rankings. Duke, Yale, Harvard and Emory all do have departments of religion that are separate from their divinty schools, and those departmenst are where serious graduate work in theology (i.e. PhD level training) occurs while the respective Divinty Schools generally have significantly lower standards for admission and primarily grant MDiv degrees (though most also do grant MA degrees that are designed to prepare students for PhD level work). The rankings themselves seem quite off. No one familiar with the world of religious studies/divinty schools would place Duke, PTS and HDS as the top three schools. One would be hard pressed to find graduates of those institution teaching theology at any of the top divinity schools or religious studies programs in the country. For example, no one with recent PhD's in theology from those schools are on the faculty at Yale, UVA, Chicago, or Princeton University. Whereas, conversely, recent graduates of those four schools (especially the first three) are on the faculty at Duke, PTS, and HDS. If the question the ranking seeks to answer is "where are the best places in the country to study theology?" then the division between religious studies departments and divinity schools is very unhepful. It would make sense instead to perhaps divide the rankings in the following way: best schools for theology PhD's, best schools for MDiv's, and best schools for MA's/MTS's/MAR's. The first of those categories would be the most telling in terms of the overall quality of the schools and one would have to take into account the various department's successes at placing their students in jobs--regardless of the name recognition of particular schools. But the other categories would be helpful too based on the various needs of individual students. A more realistic ranking of the top theology PhD programs would probably run along these lines. 1. University of Chicago Divinty School's Theology PhD AND Yale University's Department of Religion Theology PhD. 3. UVA's Dept. of Rel. Philosophical Theology PhD. 4. Emory's Graduate Division of Religion Theology PhD. 5. Duke's Dept. of Rel. Theology PhD 6. Notre Dames' Dept. of Rel. Theology PhD 7. Harvard's Dept. of Rel. Theology PhD (it is unclear whether Harvard Divinity School's ThD amounts to basically the same thing as their Religious Studies PhD, but likely it does) I do commend the ranker for his perception of Fuller's quality, it is a very fine institution and does deserve a spot in the top 10 or so. |
| Posted By: psi (poll admin) Posted On: Dec 14, 2004 Views: 660 | RE: Popular Vote paula, I very much appreciate your constructive criticism of the rankings. First off, my mis-statement about Chicago's religion department is a mistake. I'm not sure why I made the comment in the way that I did, but I do feel that Chicago has some of the best professors in both philosophy and religion in the nation. Nonetheless, point taken and I will adjust my comments accordingly. In so far as a need for differentiation between religion/theology degrees is concerned with regards to the rankings, I could not agree with you more. There is quite a bit of disparity between MDiv vs. PhD quality at many of the schools in question. Please keep in mind however, that the rankings of the divinity schools are the first of their kind. There are previous rankings of religion departments by the NRC, but they are fairly outdated. I would like to compile a ranking of religion departments in the near future when I have a little time to do so, but for the time being, the popular vote rankings seem to be fairly accurate. I also share your assessment of UVA's quality. You have compiled solid rankings for the top religious studies PhD programs although I would certainly add Princeton to your list and perhaps rank Harvard a bit higher. |
| Posted By: psi (poll admin) Posted On: Dec 14, 2004 Views: 656 | RE: Popular Vote As for Princeton, I am more or less equating their philosophy of religion PhD with a theology PhD. |
| Posted By: psi (poll admin) Posted On: Dec 14, 2004 Views: 651 | NRC Religion Graduate School Rankings Here are the NRC rankings for graduate departments of religion (based on 1993 research): 1. Chicago 2. Harvard 3. Princeton 4. Duke 5. Emory 6. Virginia 7. Vanderbilt 8. Princeton Theological 9. Cal Santa Barbara 10. Penn 11. Jewish Theological Seminary 12. Notre Dame 13. Hebrew Union 14. Columbia 15. Brown 16. Southern Methodist 17. Boston College 18. Union Theological Seminary 19. Stanford 20. Drew 21. Claremont 22. Boston University 23. Northwestern 24. Catholic University 25. Temple 26. Syracuse 27. Iowa 28. Fordham 29. Denver 30. Rice 31. Baylor 32. USC 33. Pittsburgh 34. Southern Baptist 35. Andrews 36. Duquesne 37. Fuller 38. New Orleans Baptist |
| Posted By: psi (poll admin) Posted On: Dec 14, 2004 Views: 647 | RE: Popular Vote This is more or less how I would currently (12/2004) rank the top ten religion/theology PhD programs: 1. Princeton 2. Chicago 3. Yale 4. Harvard 5. UVA 6. Emory 7. Duke 8. Notre Dame 9. Stanford 10. UC Santa Barbara |
| Posted By: psi (poll admin) Posted On: Dec 14, 2004 Views: 641 | RE: Popular Vote Before being reset and the question rephrased for 2005, here is a list of the top ten according to popular vote as of 12.13.2004: 1. Duke 2. Fuller 3. PTS 4. Yale 5. Harvard 6. Emory 7. Chicago 8. Union 9. Notre Dame 10. Boston College |
| Posted By: Luke Posted On: Nov 8, 2005 Views: 480 | RE: Popular Vote Woah there. Woah there. :) I'm a student at HDS, and I got into, and seriously considered going to the U of C Divinity School. I don't think that HDS and Duke University are bad schools because their PhDs don't teach at other Divinity Schools. First off, the ascertion is simply not true. In fact, both Collins, YDS most famous profs, came from Harvard: http://www.yale.edu/divinity/Fac.AYCollins.html http://www.yale.edu/divinity/Fac.JCollins.html Secondly, HDS has been committed to not hiring their own alumni for political purposes (and even then they occasionally do, like Allen Callahan). Third, many undergraduate programs hire HDS grads... like Macalester College, Grinnell College, Careleton College, etc. HDS takes a very pluralistic and secular view of religion, which explains a lack of alumni in seminary settings, and also the increased number in undergraduate secular institutions. U of C is very similiar except their M Div program (of 15 students a year) has a definite christian tilt ( so does HDS but HDS has M Div Buddhists, while at the U of C that's very rarely the case). So what am I trying to say? The "best" divinity school depends on your faith. If you're conservative protestant: Go to Princeton! Or Duke! Or Fuller! If you're liberal protestant but influenced by Karl Barth and the Bible as sacred text... go to Yale, or the U of C's M Div program (though the latter of these, because its limited size, often feeds into AM classes and gets a hefty load of secular, academic work as well). If you're into World Religions then the U of C and Harvard are the way to go. Even within that, there are branches. Like you could be liberal protestant but want to focus on comparative religion, or you might want to focus on pastoral care... which would lead you to different Div Schools. Choosing the best divinity school is like choosing the best religion... it's very subjective and you might get a hazy list but ultimately it comes down to beliefs on how religion should be studied rather than anything empirical (like incorporating postmodernism could be good or bad... Princeton need not be criticized for rejecting it nor lauded for ignoring it). |
| Posted By: DAN Posted On: Feb 8, 2006 Views: 466 | RE: Popular Vote New remarks have not been added for some time. I have read through the comments and would really concur with the notion that classification of all "divinity" schools together leaves the ranking somewhat meaningless. It seems to me it would be helpful to develop a ranking system that has something to do with categories, like academic reputation, reputation for preparation for practice of congregational ministry, teaching and scholarship ministries, administrative and judicatory leadership ministries, etc. While a concern was raised about Garrett-Evangelical Seminary in Evanston having had some faculty changes a few years ago, it is a school that has maintained a reputable academic program even as many newer faculty have joined the institution. Broader name recognition may well be a few years away but publications and scholarship leadership is evident already. What may distinguish Garrett from many schools is what appears to be an extraordinary connection with the issues of congregational leadership and a very intentional connection between the seminary and Christian congregations. Other seminaries or divinity schools do have very well known theologians and also have extraordinarily rigorous academic programs. I think careful investigation will show that Garrett has developed a powerful balance of demanding theological foundation along with an extraordinary connection to the effective practice of ministry in a wide range of settings. Thus, it seems that a ranking system does need to address some of these distinctions in how divinity schools and seminaries distinguish their mission. |