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Post InfoTOPIC: tobacco
Posted By: Beerliquor

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 1036
RE: tobacco

I remember the targeting of children thing...speaking of...

Something that weirded me out recently, have you seen the assortment of "Sour Puckers" which are different flavors of Schnappes? They have cartoony looking labels and the liquor is brightly colored, like kool-aid. (My friend, Russell, age 23, tells me it pretty much tastes like kool-aid too.) It clearly looks like it would appeal to teenagers big time! Why aren't they picked on?

Anne Heche needs to decide if her favorite food is tacos or hot dogs! (obscure SNL Reference - Church Lady)


Posted By: Liquor before beer

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 1034
RE: tobacco

Daisy...the website with the list of cigarette ingredients is from About.com. They are owned by nicotine inhalers? Maybe it was just an advertisment, since the subject was about quitting smoking.

The point of the intredient list isn't to say that ALL of those ingredients are all bad (even though most of them are, especially when burned). It just illustrates that cigarettes are in NO WAY a pure product. If they were simply tobacco leaves wrapped in paper, people can make their own educated decisions about whether or not to smoke, and whether or not they are bad for them. In fact, I have no beef with pot. For the most part, it's a pure product. It's bad for your lungs, but no big corporation is adding hundred of chemicals to it to make it 1000x more addictive. People can make their own educated decisions about marijuanna, because they have most of the facts presented to them. That's not the case with tobacco. It's a billion dollar, wall street business. These companies HAVE to produce good sales figures and show growth in their industry, so they can make their share holders wealthy. They do this by making an already addictive product EVEN MORE addictive by adding things to it that you and I dont know about...and that is WRONG.

Sure, it may seem that these companies have cleaned up. I mean, the government MADE them do it. Doesn't mean they are any less corrupt. Just means they are adjusting their business model. the US is a market of 200 Million possible smokers. The world on the other hand....billions. Wall Street needs to see sales. Needs to see growth. They sell a product that kills people. They aren't corrupt?? C'mon people!!


Posted By: Liquor before beer

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 1032
RE: tobacco

J-Town: I would agree that there are probably many more corrupt industries than tobacco...but I never said it was the most corrupt....jut saying that they are. I can't attest to truth.com, although I would argue that they aren't bluring their message much. It's just that people have preconceived notions that any message from the "goverment" is a lie...or exagerated. In this case, with my knowledge on the subject....the tobacco industry was SO bad back in the day that no one can possibly believe that they did the things that truth.com says in their ads. But they did.


Posted By: Meko

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 1027
RE: tobacco

Amen LBB. I think one point that is being missed here is that the government will never stop “Big Tobacco” from selling their products because that would mean a significant loss in revenue; the tobacco TAX. The only reason RJ and PM fund the anti-smoking ads is because the US majority forced congress to take action. Again, have you seen Insider?


Posted By: cornelius_the_third

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 1025
RE: tobacco

I see your point LBB pot is a pure product and in my opinion less harmfull and much more satisfing than tobacco. plus like you all have made abundantly clear your not suporting a big corupt buinsiness like the tobacco buinsess.


Posted By: Daisy

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 1014
RE: tobacco

Y'all are losing yer minds. I think that most smokers understand the risks--even the young'uns. Probably, that should read ESPECIALLY the young'uns who have had anti-drugs, smoking, sex, free thought, you name it, shoved down their collective throats since birth.

CHOICE is a fundamental right for all people. You make both good and bad decisions in life and that effects who you are and how you treat people. Why do most people want to white-wash our culture so that the only choice people have is the "correct" one?

WTF! Don't force feed me vanilla when I want something a bit spicy! Are we living A Clockwork Orange?


Posted By: Nik Ashmost

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 1012
RE: tobacco

WTF?!?!!?!?!?

I AM a smoker. Have been for 15 years. I've ALWAYS known it's unhealthy. I've ALWAYS known it increases the odds of my getting certain diseases. Ok?

That aside. Stop referencing "The Insider", it's an old movie, based on an even older bunch of happenings. Yes, the tobacco industry used to be much more secretive about their doings. They now put pamphlets in packs of cigarettes, devote websites(the pamphlets guide you straight to them), offer advice on how to quit, and warn you left & right of the dangers of smoking. When will they be doing enough to tell you how bad their product can be for you before you're satisfied????

LBB, stop saying smoking is PHYSICALLY addictive. It's not. It's very very MENTALLY addictive, but not physically. You don't have cold sweats, throw up, etc... when quitting. It's addictive the same way exercise, TV, Gambling, and the internet just to name a few things are.

I'm in no way in any denial of the health issues with smoking. But "truth.com" & the likes DO distort the facts incredibly for their own benefit. Maybe you're the one in denial here? If you simply listen to what anti-smoking sites tell you & take it as fact, you aren't in denial though. You're just ignorant.(def: see Uninformed)

You're damn right tobacco will never be illegal. Not just because the govt. relies on the taxes we SMOKERS PAY. But because the non-smokers would never stand for the increased taxes they'd have to pay if the govt. no longer had a cigarette tax to rely on.

So next time you non-smokers see someone smoking a cigarette out on the street, don't give them nasty looks because you have to smell their cigarette for a moment.(besides, we have to smell your overdose of perfume, farts, meat-rotting-in-your-teeth breath,etc...) THANK THEM for keeping YOUR sales tax, federal income tax, state tax, property tax, and any other tax you pay as low as it is! You think taxes are high now, imagine having to deal with a 450% tax increase every few years. Yes, 450%, that's what we in Illinois just had passed.


Posted By: Liquor before beer

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 1009
RE: tobacco

You're wrong. Here are the FACTS!! LOOK IT UP BEFORE MAKING RIDICULOUS COMMENTS!

Smoking is a physical addiction that produces a "chain reaction" in the body:

Nicotine acts on receptors normally used by one of the main neurotransmitters in the brain and nervous system (acetylcholine). Neurotransmitters are the "chemical messengers" released by nerve cells to communicate with other cells by altering their electrical activity.

The body responds to nicotine at these receptors as if it was the natural transmitter (acetylcholine) and the activity and physiological functions of many brain systems are altered.

With repeated nicotine dosage the body adapts to what it regards as extra acetylcholine in an attempt to restore normal function. One way it does this is to grow more acetylcholine receptors.

Thus nicotine induces structural as well as functional changes in the brain of smokers. When nicotine is suddenly withdrawn, physiological functions in the brain and other parts of the body are disturbed. This is known as withdrawal syndrome. It takes time for the body to readjust to functioning normally without nicotine.

In layman's terms...a PHYSICAL ADDICTION.

Nik, you are in denial...BIG TIME. Sorry buddy. 'dems da facts.


Posted By: Liquor before beer

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 1006
RE: tobacco

Daisy said: "CHOICE is a fundamental right for all people. You make both good and bad decisions in life and that effects who you are and how you treat people. Why do most people want to white-wash our culture so that the only choice people have is the "correct" one?

WTF! Don't force feed me vanilla when I want something a bit spicy! Are we living A Clockwork Orange?"

I respond:
This isn't about making the right or wrong choice. Quite frankly, I dont give a rats ass what you do with your body. It's your right, and I certainly dont have the right to tell you what to do with it. This isn't about choice. It's about having the proper information to make a decision....right or wrong. Is it fair that millions of people got hooked on something they may not have otherwise become addicted to if a certain malicious ingredient wasn't added to it? Millions of people lost their lives as a DIRECT result of cigarette smoking. Of course everyone knows it's bad for you. The question has always been: how bad, and could they have made a safer product. THAT IS THE POINT!!!


Posted By: Liquor before beer

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 1002
RE: tobacco

"You're damn right tobacco will never be illegal. Not just because the govt. relies on the taxes we SMOKERS PAY. But because the non-smokers would never stand for the increased taxes they'd have to pay if the govt. no longer had a cigarette tax to rely on."

No...the taxes you pay on cigarettes generally go towards the medicare/medicaid costs associated with treating people with lung cancer who dont have insurance. The rest goes towards anti-smoking/anti-drug education, etc. etc.

Yeah, you paid a 433% increase on what, a $2 pack of butts? That's what....$6? Cry me a river.


Posted By: Harry Pillcrusher

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 1001
RE: tobacco

The rise in anti-tobacco fanatics on this site shows how well the government's brainwashing scheme is working. For every website that claims to have proof of the negative effects of smoking there are two that demonstrate the positive effects of smoking. Haven't any of you ever seen some geriatric relic smoking away when their age has exceeded the national average? There are many people who have lived long and smoked almost their entire life. Smoking hardens the arteries up so that they don't get fragile and decay later in life. If you are not a smoker yet you are missing the boat. Soon they will probably be illegal and you will not reap the rewards later in life. Also they make you look pretty damn cool.


Posted By: Meko

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 998
RE: tobacco

Funny how you think that since Insider is an old movie and that it is not relevant because they have "changed" thier ways. It's funnym when you consider that the change was forced and that the same peeps are still running the companies that were at the time of Insider. Now they just have to be more careful in how they cunduct themselves.

Also, I could care less if you smoke... smoke your freakin heart out! The pont is that "Big Tabacco" has been and always will be corrupt as they are motivated by money not by the value thier product adds to society.
So, I conclude that smokers are great; they have a lower life expectancy (about 67; ask your life insurance agent)and therefore die close to post retirement and therfore reduce the social security costs! Smoke on Smokers... the nonsmokers will end up thank you for fatter SS!


Posted By: Nik Ashmost

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 990
RE: tobacco

Wow LBB, your ignorance astounds me.

Just because a product causes a small change in your bodies operating system, doesn't make it Physically addictive. A physical addiction means that upon quitting your body goes through negative withdrawal effects. Like, as I mentioned, cold sweats, throwing up, etc...

Heck, I'll point to your own little C&P LBB from whatever unknown source to prove you wrong...Notice how it mentions all the BRAIN functions that cigarettes effect????? THE BRAIN! Can you GET more MENTAL than that???!!?? I LMFAO at your ignorance on this matter. (but you're right, in LAYMAN'S terms. Since Layman MEANS uneducated!)

All that happens when you quit smoking is you get a lot more irritable. This is due to the psychological withdrawals.

What am I in denial about anyway? You keep saying I'm in it but I don't know why? I agree that smoking isn't healthy, I just disagree with your supposed "facts". Your claim of 600+ was shot down since that list was compiled from 6-7 different companies. Do you not understand yet that that list is simply a compilation of all possible ingredients? Or are you truly the one denying things?

And NO, the rising taxes aren't simply used for medicare & all that. That's a known fact. The taxes are used by the city/state/federal govt. primarily to fund other things. Such as building new parks, paying to have your street plowed, etc... Next time you see a story about cig taxes going up pay attention to what the increased taxes mean to the local govt. mmk?

I'm gonna go smoke another cigarette with all it's dangerous additives like Water, Chocolate, & Wine now.




P.S. Ever walk down a busy street? Imagine what you inhale from all those passing cars' exhaust.

P.S.S. As Truth.com points out in an attempt to disgust you into hating cigarettes.(go look at their website, it's really funny how tedious & boring they make it to research any of their claims) "Urea is in Urine, some tobacco companies use Urea in Cigarettes!" LMAO, isn't whatever is in your urine a result of what YOU ingest???? Can we say exaggerated "scare tactic"?

Happy St. Pat's !


Posted By: Liquor before beer

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 988
RE: tobacco

You're just yammering now. not one of your statements (either here or elsewhere) have been supported by facts.

try reading. then re-reading. then google physical addition and get a clinical definition of it before making stupid statements. ask your doctor and he'll tell you its a physical addiction. (and by the way, physical addiction isn't defined by "cold sweats"...where did you come up with that one? clearly out of your ass). The unknown source BTW is called WebMD. Re-read the passage. Of course, I could have used any other numerous independent web sources for support. Not that you would know, since none of your claims have been supported by anything.

BESIDES, if you read ANYTHING I wrote here, you would have recognized that Physical vs. mental addiction wasn't even the point of my argument...not even close!

In the end, you're just illustrating your own ignorance.


Posted By: Liquor before beer

Posted On: Mar 17, 2004
Views: 987
RE: tobacco

"Wow LBB, your ignorance astounds me."

Oh yeah? Lets see your argument for this one? hmm...

"Just because a product causes a small change in your bodies operating system, doesn't make it Physically addictive. A physical addiction means that upon quitting your body goes through negative withdrawal effects. Like, as I mentioned, cold sweats, throwing up, etc..."

..and this is a clinical definition of Physical addiction? Interesting.

"Heck, I'll point to your own little C&P LBB from whatever unknown source to prove you wrong...Notice how it mentions all the BRAIN functions that cigarettes effect????? THE BRAIN! Can you GET more MENTAL than that???!!?? I LMFAO at your ignorance on this matter. (but you're right, in LAYMAN'S terms. Since Layman MEANS uneducated!)"

Unknown source is WebMD. Can't see how you could prove me wrong since the article was titled "Smoking is a physical addiction". By the way, your brain is a physical entity. It's not a made up thing like in the matrix or something. It does exist. Knock on your forehead...it's behind there.

"All that happens when you quit smoking is you get a lot more irritable. This is due to the psychological withdrawals."

...again, this is a clinical definition? Interesting? What's your source?

"What am I in denial about anyway? You keep saying I'm in it but I don't know why? I agree that smoking isn't healthy, I just disagree with your supposed "facts". Your claim of 600+ was shot down since that list was compiled from 6-7 different companies. Do you not understand yet that that list is simply a compilation of all possible ingredients? Or are you truly the one denying things?"

the 600+ ingredient thing wasn't shot down. I actually shot down your attempt at shooting it down. Liek your 9thg rade english teacher probably told you a thousand times, read it again.

"And NO, the rising taxes aren't simply used for medicare & all that. That's a known fact. The taxes are used by the city/state/federal govt. primarily to fund other things. Such as building new parks, paying to have your street plowed, etc... Next time you see a story about cig taxes going up pay attention to what the increased taxes mean to the local govt. mmk?"

Thanks for the economic lesson. Actually, and interestingly, taxes are also used to fund programs, such as medicare and medicaid. Since smoking causes so many illnesses, including but not limited to, heart disease and lung cancer, it puts a tremendous strain on the system. An overwheling majority of the taxes you pay on butts go to these programs. Think of it as a Flex-pay program for your future prospects of getting cancer. You're paying for your medical care now! What a great concept!

"I'm gonna go smoke another cigarette with all it's dangerous additives like Water, Chocolate, & Wine now."

read again buddy. this was shot down a few pages ago. jeez!


"P.S. Ever walk down a busy street? Imagine what you inhale from all those passing cars' exhaust."

not nearly as much as I have to inhale in a bar.

"P.S.S. As Truth.com points out in an attempt to disgust you into hating cigarettes.(go look at their website, it's really funny how tedious & boring they make it to research any of their claims) "Urea is in Urine, some tobacco companies use Urea in Cigarettes!" LMAO, isn't whatever is in your urine a result of what YOU ingest???? Can we say exaggerated "scare tactic"?"

...again, I can't attest to truth.com, as I've stated a few times (if you read...jeez, were back to this again!).

"Happy St. Pat's !"

i'll be enjoying it in a smoke-free, New York City bar. Thanks!!



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