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| Posted By: Jay Posted On: Dec 15, 2004 Views: 1341 | What about some rationality Hello I have to admit there are a lot of kids who say they have TK and are more addicted to the "fluffy" side of things. I don't mind you not believing in TK. I approve having a rational mind about these phenomenons. While I do believe in TK and practice it myself (and by the way I am 18 years old and do not like Dragonball or the like) even though we do not have scientific evidence that it exists, I believe we will one day be able to explain it scientifically, but will that remove the fact that it was something we held within us? Of course not, perhaps it will just remove the more mystical aspect around TK for people open-minded enough/rational enough to accept science, which I believe to be most of TK practicioners, but not all. By the way, to those who'd use the argument that telekinesis isn't explained by science, I reply that science is in constant evolution, therefore do not know everything there is to know and can be shattered at any moment by any major discovery. Basically, it is ever progressing and nothing is ever solid enough as to not have the risk to be disproved at some point. |
| Posted By: Martin Posted On: Dec 15, 2004 Views: 1338 | RE: What about some rationality Hi I'm using this post because I think that jay is building something out there and i'd like to be like an active Reefere on this post because I do believe in TK and I'd really want to know what is the line beetween Sceptics and Believers. So if the peoples that would LOVE to say something insulting want to keep it for them, we could get it straight and understand all of what keeps us in our little "clan". So, for the love of who ever you want (since some don't believe in god); 1-No cheap Shot... Insulting is leading nowhere 2-No escape... If you start this thing, try to stay in it 3-Say something that will lead us somewhere...(as I already said, insulting is leading nowhere) 4-Read everything before posting, and think of what you write. I think that theses are 4 simples rules to stay in a context of respect(cause I think that humans CAN be respectful), so juste follow them or leave this thread. Thank you for reading and understanding. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Dec 16, 2004 Views: 1334 | RE: What about some rationality Hi Jay, Rationality is a good thing, it is almost my religion. As far as science is concerned you are so right. Nothing is certain, every theory is always subject to change. As an example I was reading only this morning that relativity may be showing its age. Scientists think that gamma ray bursts may move at faster than light speed. This does not mean we dump relativity and start over again, but we may need to modify it a bit to cover extreme situations. Things change. Ideas change. Today I moved a psi wheel, I mean I had it spinning like a rotor! I am starting to investigate what could be causing uncovered psi wheels to spin. See the thread TK & science Keith |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Dec 16, 2004 Views: 1332 | RE: What about some rationality Hi Martin. I understand what you are saying and what you are trying to achieve. Let me explain my feeling about my message boards. When I first set them up I thought about it long and hard. I know how annoying it can be when you have a good thread going and some jerk comes along and acts like a chimp. The flip side of this is censorship where only like minded people are allowed. A case in point is ppsociety. While censorship does have its uses, I feel it also stifles originality, and among the idiots some one will come along and ask a damn good question that is screaming out to be answered. I prefer to have no censorship whatsoever, anyone can say anything. I have put up with a lot of abuse from Tkers, but it has also opened my mind more and forced me to think about it a lot harder. That can't be a bad thing |
| Posted By: Martin Posted On: Dec 16, 2004 Views: 1315 | RE: What about some rationality Lets talk philosophy. You all know Socrate, what a great man he was... One of his theory was about Ignorance. He said that there was two kind of person. The Simple ignorants and the Double Ignorants. Lets define them. Simple Ignorants: They know they don't know. In this way, they are able to learn new things. Double Ignorants: They think they know everything. So it's useless for them to learn new things. I didn't want to be a double ignorant about TK, so I started my search and I found a wonderfull web site talking about it... I wanted proof of course, but there was none... they were saying that you need to try to see it yourself... So I did it... now I guess you all know what happend next... I just hope people are respectful enough to stay in dignity and don't say insulting things... I believe I what I see... Yes I'm a Thomas, but you septics are all Thomas, so if you want proofs, just try it out... If you don't want to try it out, don't but stop complaining about us, people that are in it. So for myself, I stopped being a Double ignorant and i'm now learning lots of new things everyday... Some believe, some don't and some don't want to tell why they do not believe... Well I said my story, now tell yours(if you have one...) |
| Posted By: Martin Posted On: Dec 16, 2004 Views: 1311 | RE: What about some rationality I want to apologize here, because I just read the thread with PJ and I think this is great. The theory is still good, because it's Socrate, but you showed me that nothing is impossible here. I can't wait for your test to grow, I'll do some experiment on my side so i'll help(sorry I posted it here, but i needed to repair so things i said ) I really glad to see that you really are open minded. |
| Posted By: Jay Posted On: Dec 16, 2004 Views: 1306 | RE: What about some rationality Well said Martin, I totally agree with you. People at least need to be aware of their own ignorance. It is but illusion to live in a world you believe to know everything about. I believe in telekinesis, but there is a distinction to be made between believing and knowing. I do not have the pretention to say I know for a fact that telekinesis is real. As much as I would hate it to be false, I would humbly accept it if it was ever proven to be caused by something other than the power of our mind. Telekinesis being real would imply that the world still has a lot of secrets to reveal and i'd be disappointed if it was "proven not to exist" because the implications concerning the real capacities which reside within every one of us would be reduced to almost nothing. I think TKers have a few different ways of working with the phenomenon. First, you have the persons who only want to have some fun with it, who see it as recreational. Second, you have the persons who stick to a more rational vision of things, making good use of scientific or semi-scientific procedure. However, I believe most TKers adhere to a mix of both of the above. I sure do. I see both entertainement and credibility as being important in the process. By entertainement, I mean I enjoy doing telekinesis just for fun, sometimes to pass the time. As of credibility, I mean that ,I, at other times, want to make sure I can scientifically prove telekinesis to be real. For example, i'm now working on getting a piece of foil balanced on a psiwheel under double-glass (that is one glass within another) to spin. By the way, I appreciate that you began doing experiments regarding the existence of telekinesis. One thing though. If, as of now, your explanation for TK using hands is a thermal effect. How would you explain people who claim to do it without the hands, which include me, aside from them lying or breathing on their psiwheel? And how will you go about scientifically experimenting this possibility? One last thing, I noticed that you use the word "telekinesis" and so did I in my posts on this board for no good reason. In fact, telekinesis would mean "movement without intervention of any visible form of energy". Parapsychologists use the term "psychokinesis", which is "movement resulting from a direct mental interaction", which I think is more appropriate, more accurate. Most people are familiar with the phenomenon being called telekinesis, but science would definitely go for the most precise, which is the of course psychokinesis.Most people are familiar with the phenomenon being called telekinesis, but science would definitely go for the most precise, which is of course psychokinesis. Jay _____________________________ Philosophy is a place where the right to maintain one's position is conditional to one's capacity of paying in arguments the cost of their position. |
| Posted By: The Last Random Hero Posted On: Dec 18, 2004 Views: 1282 | RE: What about some rationality Martin: "I wanted proof of course, but there was none... they were saying that you need to try to see it yourself... So I did it... now I guess you all know what happend next..." I'm guessing you tried your own TK experiment and it worked? I'd love to know exactly what you did and under what conditions because I'm a total skeptic at the moment but I'd try it myself if I thought it was reasonably scientifically sound. |
| Posted By: The Last Random Hero Posted On: Dec 28, 2004 Views: 1258 | RE: What about some rationality No reply? I guess that answers my question. |
| Posted By: Martin Posted On: Dec 29, 2004 Views: 1247 | RE: What about some rationality Sorry about that, I've been really busy with all the Xmas thing at my home. What I did. Of course I'm not a scientist with a lot of diploma, but I do have a objectivity when I try out new things. So I did a psiwhell and i got sure that there was no air running around it.(closed the door and all the other stuff that could do me wrong) Then I went 2 meters away from the psiwhell because, for some reason, I know that if I breath the little piece of paper will turn (Oh, intelligent I am) So I tried it out... Maybe 45 minutes later I was able to move it correctly... I'm not saying that I was doing whatever I wanted with the psiwhell but it did rotate the way I wanted. I haven't try under something but i'll give it a try. I'll give feed back as soon as I can. But if you want to try it already, nobody will knock at your door and get you into jail for trying to understand a wierd phenomenon. Sorry again for being late (can we be late over the internet ?), Hope you write back. |
| Posted By: The Last Random Hero Posted On: Dec 30, 2004 Views: 1234 | RE: What about some rationality So basically you left a psi wheel alone for 45 minutes without covering it and eventually it moved. That's your basis for your TK ability? And yet without further experimentation you're already calling it TK and a 'weird phenomenom' rather than a result of anything more simple of rational? Of course it turned the way you wanted, well it can only turn one of two ways so there was always a 50/50 chance of getting that right. But be honest, if it had turned the other way, you'd still call it TK. How can you possibly call that being objective? |
| Posted By: Martin Posted On: Dec 31, 2004 Views: 1224 | RE: What about some rationality **** So basically you left a psi wheel alone for 45 minutes without covering it and eventually it moved. That's your basis for your TK ability? **** Where did I say I left it alone? **** And yet without further experimentation you're already calling it TK and a 'weird phenomenom' rather than a result of anything more simple of rational? **** You don't think it's wierd? Isn't it wierd when there's no air running through the place, no heat, no electricity and not even the air you breath... Still I do think it's wierd. **** Of course it turned the way you wanted, well it can only turn one of two ways so there was always a 50/50 chance of getting that right. But be honest, if it had turned the other way, you'd still call it TK. **** Can you please be honest with me, tell me that you don't want to try it if you want, but don't use the same little sentence that you use everytime you want to make a discussion quick. Acctualy, I didn't use the term "TK" in my last post... As I can count you used it 3 times when I used it 0 times... So tell me where I said that it was TK I was doing? **** How can you possibly call that being objective? **** Because I tried to discern a phenomenom and see on which factors It move and on which I don't, I tried to make sure that there was nothing that could interrupt between me and this little piece of paper. |
| Posted By: The Last Random Hero Posted On: Jan 2, 2005 Views: 1213 | RE: What about some rationality "So I did a psiwhell and i got sure that there was no air running around it.(closed the door and all the other stuff that could do me wrong)" - The more intelligent posters to this site, believers and none, have ruled out an uncovered psi-wheel as any sort of basis for experiementing with TK, so doors closed or not you can forget this arguement. "Then I went 2 meters away from the psiwhell...Maybe 45 minutes later I was able to move it correctly..." - Ok, so you're not using the word telekinesis, but you're claiming YOU were moving the wheel. So you're you weren't using TK or you were? "You don't think it's wierd? Isn't it wierd when there's no air running through the place, no heat, no electricity and not even the air you breath... Still I do think it's wierd." - No it's not, it's an uncovered psi-wheel, it's not weird that it moved after 45 minutes. "Acctualy, I didn't use the term "TK" in my last post... As I can count you used it 3 times when I used it 0 times... So tell me where I said that it was TK I was doing?" - When you claimed that YOU moved the psi-wheel and turned it the way YOU wanted, and the fact that this is a TK message board? You said "...I was able to move it correctly..." What do you mean if not TK then, you used your hands and pushed it? Read Keith's TK experiments and results summary and start being realistic. "Because I tried to discern a phenomenom and see on which factors It move and on which I don't, I tried to make sure that there was nothing that could interrupt between me and this little piece of paper." - No you didn't, if you'd read anything Keith has written about uncovered psi-wheels you wouldn't be trying to make this ridiculous arguement. |
| Posted By: Martin Posted On: Jan 3, 2005 Views: 1199 | RE: What about some rationality ***** "I'm guessing you tried your own TK experiment and it worked? I'd love to know exactly what you did and under what conditions because I'm a total skeptic at the moment but I'd try it myself if I thought it was reasonably scientifically sound." ***** That's what you asked. I told you. If you don't like what yoiu read, this is not really my problem. So you want me to read Keith experiment? Well I did before you asked and since I don't want to go further with this "going nowhere" discution, I won't talk about it. Everybody have their own way to tell if something is true and if something is not. I think I can live a normal life knowing that one guy in the world calling himself a hero think I'm probably dumb because I don't do everything like his hero. Peace, Hope you guys will come to something. |
| Posted By: The Last Random Hero Posted On: Jan 3, 2005 Views: 1197 | RE: What about some rationality You've answered my questions without answers and avoiding everything which questions your self-apointed superiority over the rest of us. Arguement is about ego, discussion is about the expansion of our understanding. You've decided to exclude yourself from both of these which not only means you have little understanding of the subject but also you're lacking in self confidence. If I was more charitable I'd pity you, but you're not even worth of pity. You're too dumb. |
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