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| Posted By: powdered_water Posted On: Feb 17, 2005 Views: 1470 | Well... Well Keith interesting site. I wonder if you believe in something like "Global Warming" many do. That doesn't prove or disprove it. So whats the point with the whole scientist and insitute thing at the bottom of the page? Many scientists believe in "Global Warming" doesn't mean it exists. Many don't believe in it. Yet there is no hard evidence of it. The effects can not even be truly predicted. Therefore its my opinion that your famous scientists and such comment not agreeing with TK means nothing. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Feb 18, 2005 Views: 1464 | RE: Well... powdered_water, The argument you have just put forward attacking scientists and the scientific method is meaningless. Global warming is a problem because it is based on how different scientists interpret the data, and the data is incomplete, we don't have accurate data that goes back far enough to be able to make any firm predictions. It isn't the data that is the problem anyway, but how you interpret it. However, that said, the vast majority agree it is taking place, but disagree on why it is taking place and how much the temperature will continue to rise. A scientific study of TK is not about different scientists studying tons of data and trying to make predictions based on that data. All that a study of TK requires is for TK to be demonstrated to a scientist in a lab. It's that simple. |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: Feb 18, 2005 Views: 1460 | RE: Well... >> All that a study of TK requires is for TK to be demonstrated to a scientist in a lab. >> It's that simple. I believe that has in fact been done - however not with a 100% reputable scientist in a controlled setting. The raw information we have is dodgy at best. I also believe that one day we will have it revealed in a controlled setting - but that is purely my opinion. Of course you believe otherwise. |
| Posted By: powdered_water Posted On: Feb 18, 2005 Views: 1445 | RE: Well... Keith, I did not attack scientists or definately not the scientific method. Now with scientists interpreting the data. Well...there is such a thing as bias, because everybody has an agenda. But people believe the Earth has been on a warming trend for 6,000 years. That was just a random fact "However, that said, the vast majority agree it is taking place, but disagree on why it is taking place and how much the temperature will continue to rise." A vast majority agreeing doesn't mean anything really. Most people are either dumb or ill informed. And there have been many things such as the 1956 "I,Libertine" hoax and many others. The point of the post that I sent was that just because no one has said it doesn't mean its false. Nor if they say it does it mean its true. There is your :"All that a study of TK requires is for TK to be demonstrated to a scientist in a lab. It's that simple." Actually its not. I believe her name was Nina Kulaghina err something like that. She showed that TK was possible. And she did it under controlled circumstances. Even if today some one proved the TK phenomenon people would still deny it. Now about Placebo "however not with a 100% reputable scientist in a controlled setting." Even if you didn't have a largely reputable scientist it doesn't mean anything about TK. Now there is no reason to believe a reputable scientist wouldn't believe in TK too. Well thats all I have to say for now. |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: Feb 18, 2005 Views: 1442 | RE: Well... The purpose of the reputable scientist is not to have someone who does not believe in TK. It is to have someone with a critical mind available to determine what the example in front of him really is. Whether he believes in TK or not should hopefully be irrelevant since he would likely be critical of only the observations and not his prejudices. And yes, Ninel Kulagina came to mind when I mentioned that bit about demonstrating to a reputable scientist. It was done, but it's not generally accepted as proof. I'm not actually sure why - I should do some quick research on her |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: Feb 19, 2005 Views: 1427 | RE: Well... "And the answer to why out of all those thousands of people that claim to be able to do some really remarkable TK stuff do not just walk into a lab or university or newspaper office etc etc, is...............?" Indeed. I honestly have no idea. On my blog spot, you'll notice I have a quick stab at it and state that none of my weak arguments suffice :\ Personally I believe it will eventually happen. But I'm not going to hold my breath on it... |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: Feb 19, 2005 Views: 1426 | RE: Well... Thanks for the link to james conrad's site "I want to believe in Nina. I truly do. But part of me is a skeptic. Here are some skeptical points to consider about her and her claims." Here is something that does annoys me about many sceptics Why is being sceptical always assumed to be a negative nitpick on the subject. Sceptical, as I understand, means to look at all the points objectively before sucking it in as fact. That includes any positive points as well IMO, but authors like this dwell *only* on the negative ideas. In his entire article I only see one positive sentence. "No authoritative skeptics or magician investigators were ever present at any of her demonstrations" That really is the point here. If this had happened, we probably wouldn't be discussing this The rest of the page seems to me to be generally sound points (albeit only negative) It would be helpful if more information was released from a reputable source |
| Posted By: anomaly Posted On: Feb 19, 2005 Views: 1422 | RE: Well... Here is an example of a research with magicians present: http://www.uri-geller.com/content/research/bersani.htm However, I don't think it really matters, as the mainstream media and people at large have decided long ago that such things doesn't exist. It would take lots and lots of similar (successful) studies at different independent research facility before we can even think of something like this being accepted by science. Sadly these studies usually only get published in controversial magazines, and may ruin any scientist's career, so it's not likely that a reputable scientist will risk getting involved with such things. Additionally, the same may be said for the performer. They all risk getting ridiculed by the public. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Feb 19, 2005 Views: 1418 | RE: Well... I understand that many tkers claim that if TK was ever successfully demonstrated in a lab under test conditions it would not be published. I think that is just an easy excuse to explain why it has never happened. Just imagine for a moment that tomorrow it happens. A reputable and respected research facility is able to prove beyond dispute that TK exists. That being the case how could they be ridiculed when they hold indisputable proof? Proof is proof, evidence is evidence, facts are facts. It may even show that TK can't be produced on demand, that it only works sometimes for reasons as yet unknown. That wouldn't matter, they have proof, thats all that matters. A scientist that holds proof of a previously un-accepted or unknown force is going to publish it . It's every scientist's dream to put their name on a new discovery. A Nobel prize and everlasting fame and fortune beckon. If TK was ever discovered it would not be possible to keep it quite! It would be a huge breakthrough with massive implications for science. Dont think that the military would be able to keep it quite. There are damn few secrets in todays world. The enemy know almost as much about what you are doing as you do, sometimes more. What isnt known the conspiracy theorists will quickly make up! |
| Posted By: powdered_water Posted On: Feb 19, 2005 Views: 1412 | RE: Well... The problem is Keith that people would deny it even with proof. It goes against people's beliefs and religions. They could always make an excuse for it working... Of course then you get hippy happy people who think you are demonic and whatnot. Like in more primitive parts of the world. If you speak under your breath they think you are possessed. Things like that. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Feb 19, 2005 Views: 1409 | RE: Well... So, you remain convinced that even if TK was reported to be a fact by a reputable scientific institution no one would believe it. I beg to differ. I for one would believe it. If I can believe it so can many others. But as this argument is only theoretical, we can only wait and see. We can speculate for ever, but it would get us nowhere. |
| Posted By: ROB Posted On: Feb 20, 2005 Views: 1387 | RE: Well... plus : lets be honest, every sceptik including myself would love tk to be real, it would be fantastic. This is the whole point abouth things like tk, its not sceptiks disliking the idea at all because it would be great, its just the way its presented as "fact" without any. |
| Posted By: powdered_water Posted On: Feb 20, 2005 Views: 1385 | RE: Well... Well Keith I kind of agree with you once. But Rob i suggest you reread everything here. |
| Posted By: powdered_water Posted On: Feb 20, 2005 Views: 1384 | RE: Well... I mean your theory part by the way. |
| Posted By: rob Posted On: Feb 20, 2005 Views: 1174 | RE: Well... on that point though keith.. do you think if a scientist found full proof that there wasnt a creator (god) that religion would collapse ??? i think religion wouldnt stop, but then maybe thats what tk is like for (some),its a strong personal belief for (some) and thats it. what do you think? |
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