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| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Mar 1, 2005 Views: 954 | So What Exactly Can The Brain Do I have just read through Paranoid Jesters latest science contribution over at ppsociety, its titled "So What Exactly Can The Brain Do?" There is something I wish to clarify just to avoid any confusion visitors to that site may experience should they read that article. PJ says Did you know that you can actually run model electric trains with nothing more than brain waves? Now if that statement were actually true as it stands then we would not be having this discussion, for it would mean that those trains were being moved by TK. They are not of course being moved by TK, Randi can relax. I don't think PJ meant to word it that way because it is so misleading. So what does PJ really mean? He means this. The trains are being powered by electricity from the mains via a voltage transformer as usual. The trains run on electricity in the normal way. The electrically powered trains are then used as a visual performance indicator of the level of Alpha Waves emitted by the brain, its called biofeedback. Electrodes attached to the head measure the strength of the Alpha Waves. This information is then used by an electronic device to control the speed of the train, instead of the conventional method of simply turning the hand-held speed control knob. What is the point of doing it? The point is that by using biofeedback techniques, such as changing the speed of the train, the subject learns how to increase their Alpha waves and thus make the train go faster, without knowing how they increase their Alpha waves. If they were simply told to increase their Alpha Waves they wouldnt know how to, but by seeing the change in speed of the train they gradually learn how to, albeit subconsciously at first. This is how biofeedback works. I just felt I should make the point clear that model electric trains are not being run on nothing more than brain waves, otherwise some tkers might think that there are tkers about who can power up model electric trains! They cant. I just wanted you all to be clear on that. |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: Mar 2, 2005 Views: 947 | RE: So What Exactly Can The Brain Do Thanks for that clarification, maybe it was a little vague for some :) It is a nifty way to learn to induce alpha state however. Pity I don't have the equipment to play with it :( PS: Do you have a particular stance regarding lucid dreaming? We can start a separate thread if the answer becomes a long one :) Greg |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Mar 4, 2005 Views: 927 | RE: So What Exactly Can The Brain Do Yes, biofeedback can be fun. I saw a TV programme years ago where they took a guy from the audience and sat him in front of a screen showing a £ sign and no money. They just told him to imagine that the final money it showed would be his, but didn't tell him how to get it. The way it worked was that every time he blinked it went up £1.00. After 20 minutes or so it was going up at an amazing rate, and he hadn't worked out how and had no idea his blinkrate was out of control. Regarding lucid dreaming it's not something I have any interest in. Maybe someone else here does? I take my dreams as they come, nightmares and all! I must stop going to bed after eating cheese and pickled onions last thing, it's just not a good idea. Some mornings I can wake up exhausted! |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: Mar 5, 2005 Views: 924 | RE: So What Exactly Can The Brain Do [QUOTE]Regarding lucid dreaming it's not something I have any interest in. Maybe someone else here does? I take my dreams as they come, nightmares and all! I must stop going to bed after eating cheese and pickled onions last thing, it's just not a good idea. Some mornings I can wake up exhausted![/QUOTE] haha okay. It's a hobby that I enjoy, and have done a few simple experiments, including with food. It's quite tough to draw conclusions where there are so many factors at play :\ For interests sake: I'm currently involved in constructing a device that will record electrodermal response and/or pulse rate / temperature. Great for some simple research. We also would like it to detect the REM state, and activate a vibration motor or LED pattern in a mask. The idea is that your dreams will contain those sensations, and one could learn to recognise them. I suppose my real question is : Do you consider the evidence obtained from lucid dreaming research to be pseudoscience (eg. Stephen Laberge), or are they legitimate findings? |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Mar 6, 2005 Views: 916 | RE: So What Exactly Can The Brain Do Placebo, You said. "I suppose my real question is : Do you consider the evidence obtained from lucid dreaming research to be pseudoscience (eg. Stephen Laberge), or are they legitimate findings?" Like I said before, I have no interest in the subject and I will leave it open to others to respond if they are interested in the subject. I did go to Google and type in "dream control" and was amazed at the number of sites that came up. Just not my sort of thing though. |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: Mar 6, 2005 Views: 912 | RE: So What Exactly Can The Brain Do Alright ;) |
| Posted By: Mike Posted On: Mar 20, 2005 Views: 849 | RE: So What Exactly Can The Brain Do First off i would like to say that i have a lot of respect for Keith but that what he kind of represents is a little dis-heartening but o well. i would like to belive about all that cool stuff about TK thats all very interesting but me i would have to see it just plainly obviously to know for sure because all the videos are kind of sketchy. on the topic of Lucid Dreaming i have been doing research on that topic and about using 100% of ur brian and to tell you the truth the things you start thinking about and how you start to see things once you learn about the expansion of the mind (not so much talking about TK but many other things). IT all started when i heard about a scientist Named Nicola Tesla did i start to become really interested in the actual possibilities of the world but better yet how the world needs to change its ways and realize that we need to put more time into finding alternative sourses to increase our economic status globaly not so much in the continent we live on. i could tell u some more things about lucid dreaming but i would like to wait till i get a msg back from Placebo or keith. i have many questions i would like to adress in the future just on pure curiosity. and i would most likly start a new thread to just because i literally have lots to talk about but this was just the most recent thread so i hope to get a reply in the next week or so. Mike |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: Mar 22, 2005 Views: 841 | RE: So What Exactly Can The Brain Do Mike: Firstly, well, please try to type more legibly, or I'll be make assumptions based on it :) I'm not really sure what sort of comments you're expecting. Regarding lucid dreaming, I'm already quite knowledgeable on the subject. If you want a discussion on it, I suggest a forum like www.ld4all.com or www.dreamviews.com ;) >> about using 100% of ur brian People already use 100% of their brAIns. Which part aren't you using? *concerned expression* Greg |
| Posted By: thegrogen Posted On: Apr 29, 2005 Views: 748 | RE: So What Exactly Can The Brain Do On the topic of biofeedback and alpha state, I saw a thing at a science show once where two people put terminals to their forehead. There was two graphs in the background, each showing the alpha and theta levels from the terminals. There was a ball in a tube in the middle of the table between them, and something at each end. The people would try to relax the most, and whoever had the highest alpha/theta levels would be winning, since the ball would move towards the other end of the table. It was pretty cool to watch, since there was nothing touching the ball. Electromagnets at each end perhaps?... |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: May 11, 2005 Views: 716 | RE: So What Exactly Can The Brain Do Perhaps an electromagnet under the table :) It would be quite a fun toy to make. I'm wondering if using GSR (electro dermal response) would give the same sort of fun - like a lie detector, but measuring relaxation |
| Posted By: anomaly Posted On: May 13, 2005 Views: 709 | RE: So What Exactly Can The Brain Do Placebo: Then you could cheat by asking the other person personal questions. ;) |