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| Posted By: Ayra Posted On: Apr 19, 2006 Views: 1370 | Arguments To say that TK/PK exists without any firm scientific proof that has been widely accepted is a rather rash thing to do, and it's understandable that many arguments have been started about this. However, to support evidence that TK/PK does NOT exist by using fallacies (for example: "It hasn't been proven therefore it doesn't exist." This is a fallacy because many things existed before we proved them. The earth was rotating around the sun long before we realized our solar system was heliocentric) deserves just as much argument and ridicule as firmly believing it does without concrete proof. Now, it is perfectly okay to debate this. However, are the insults really necesary? I'm not sure how telling someone "get a life" or "open your eyes" is going to make your argument any better. You can keep trying, though. But, in all honesty, no one looks to smart when they do this. Flames are accepted, as I will not reply to this. I am sure that several of you will use this fact against me, perhaps by calling me a coward? At any rate I made my case. Thanks for reading. |
| Posted By: Rahmid Posted On: Apr 19, 2006 Views: 1367 | RE: Arguments Seriously i just want some questions answered. This is the first time i EVER ment so many concrete skeptics. All others i've turned into, "it could happed" or "i dont know" kinda of ppl. I just want to know more about the other side. Thanks for bringing this up!! Rahmid |
| Posted By: Boom diggity Posted On: Apr 19, 2006 Views: 1364 | RE: Arguments Rhabid...Go home and shut up...stop botrhering everyone just because your a lonely bored soul with no life. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Apr 19, 2006 Views: 1357 | RE: RE: Arguments Ayra, You do not present a sensible argument. You said, and I quote "....."It hasn't been proven therefore it doesn't exist." This is a fallacy because many things existed before we proved them. The earth was rotating around the sun long before we realized our solar system was heliocentric) deserves just as much argument and ridicule as firmly believing it does without concrete proof........" That argument has no meaning in this context. You are talking about a situation where lack of scientific knowledge caused a wrong theory to be accepted. No one questioned if the earth or sun existed. We are arguing about the existance of TK, not about theories about how it works. It would first be necessary to prove TK existed before a theory could be proposed to explain it. As it has never been demonstrated no theory is required, therefore your comparison of the sun/earth theory has no bearing on the subject whatsoever. |
| Posted By: Ayra Posted On: Apr 20, 2006 Views: 1349 | RE: Arguments My butt smells real real bad |
| Posted By: Rahmid Posted On: Apr 20, 2006 Views: 1342 | RE: RE: RE: Arguments "Ayra" Stop hijacking names. No one is laughing. Good try though. Keith, She's not trying to make an argument. She said nothing about she saying her views were for or against PK. She's just referring to the arguments. She's refering to the fallacy,(Idk if i used this right, I dont hear the word much) "it hasn't been proved." It doesn't really make sence. Of course it hasn't been proved. No one really disputes that. She's complaining about the use of that, on both sides(at least it makes sence from keith's side) cause it's pointless. Pk's existance is a oppinion. And it does have barring in this discusion. She has made a Correlary. She says many things were not known and attacked because of lack of study and proof. The heliocentric theory coorelates with this argument, because there hasn't been enough study on PK. Things are just now starting to get up to pace. With things such as Reto PK(people trying to influence a random number generator, ex. 100100101101010110101, try and make more 0's, this is also known as micro-pk), that colleges and labs are making some headway in. Rahmid |
| Posted By: Middle Ground Posted On: Apr 25, 2006 Views: 1320 | RE: RE: Arguments Whew, I'm bored tonight, my favorite forum is down, so I'm bugging all you little people. Aren't you just gushing with excitement? At any rate, I agree with The Ayra, I mean, there is no less mature way to try and argue a point than insult the people trying to make it. Oh, and Boom diggity, hey, you might want to try learning the english language before telling someone to go home, you mis-spelled Rahmid See? I can flame too, does it make me look better? No, it makes me look like a jerk, but to my credit, I think the person I was refering to is a jerk too, so it's even. Oh, and I believe the point that Ayra was trying to make was, we have not always known what we know now. Before we found out the world was round, we thought is was flat, "Here there be monsters" And you would be considered nuts if you said any different. Tell me how this is different Keith? How is lack of Knowledge of somthing proof that something abosolutly does not exist? |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Apr 28, 2006 Views: 1315 | RE: Arguments ".....Tell me how this is different Keith? How is lack of Knowledge of somthing proof that something abosolutly does not exist?......" Nothing can be proven not to exist. This is obvious. You cannot prove that I can't walk on water. I can't prove TK does not exist. That however is not the point. If I made the ridiculous claim I could walk on water then it would be up to me to prove it, you could not disprove it. Those that make the ridiculous claim they can do TK need to prove it. Nobody ever has. So what is your problem with that? |
| Posted By: Middle Ground Posted On: Apr 30, 2006 Views: 1301 | RE: Arguments Hmm, indeed, no one ever has, but no one has proven it doesn't, making the topic open. I don't have a problem so much with the arguement you are trying to make, but the way you are trying to make it, in the fact that you rarely get through a post without somehow insulting a TK'ers intelligence. You said you were a deist ((Which seems like a very interesting path I might add)) So what is your problem with other's just trying to find new knowledge? After all, in the beginning, we didn't know about the force of magnets, or how the moon affected the tide, we knew nothing at all right? Well, what is so wrong about looking into something new? I'm not saying they are right, but someone has to look into it, or they will never know if they are right or wrong about it. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Apr 30, 2006 Views: 1299 | RE: Arguments The first thing you said in reply to my post was '...Hmm, indeed, no one ever has, but no one has proven it doesn't, making the topic open....' This shows why we can never agree about TK. As I said, and you agree on this, it is not possible to prove a thing does not exist. This however does NOT leave the matter open, otherwise we are going to have to leave it open that I can walk on water. Clearly some common sense needs to apply when confronted with bizarre paranormal claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You again come back with the 'lack of knowledge' argument, but this does not apply in arguments of this nature. We can have lack of knowledge about how a star collapses or how an electron decides where to go, but we can't have a 'lack of knowledge' about something that has never been shown to exist. Do we have 'lack of knowledge' on zombies, fairies, goblins, mermaids, elves, dragons, and invisible demons that sit on your left shoulder and tell you bad things to do? People can speculate all they like and can make any silly claim that just happens to pop into their head, and let's face it, there are plenty of silly people out there to do it. They can claim any super power thing they wish and say I can't prove its false. But what on earth is the point in that? In order to believe a thing a sensible person requires proof - Wow! You can walk on water! Amazing! Show me - Only a fool would believe without proof. There is no proof of TK so I have absolutely no reason to believe it exists. None. I can't understand why people have such a problem with that, unless of course they are happy to accept it on someone's say so and an internet site. If they can do it themselves then why don't they? That question is of course rhetorical, they come up with all manner of silly reasons as to why they can't demonstrate it.Hmmmm. Is all that a sensible enough insult free argument for you? And what has it changed? Nothing. |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: May 4, 2006 Views: 1285 | RE: Arguments It might be interesting to read point #4 of http://www.victorzammit.com/skeptics/winston.html Although no doubt you are aware of much of what is said, it has some interesting points IMHO At the very least you either (1) find it amusing or (2) learn something more about how some of us crackpots justify ourselves. PS: Good move putting the scrambled digits in, if that was your idea |
| Posted By: Middle Ground Posted On: May 5, 2006 Views: 1281 | RE: Arguments Well I'm impressed and proud of you Keith, you made it through an entire post without attacking anyone. I would Glomp you, but I'm male, and don't know you that well. But at any rate, Still and all, so many people wouldn't believe in something if they didn't BELIEVE in something. Now I know there is a sucker born every second, but DAMN! |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 5, 2006 Views: 1278 | RE: Arguments Placebo, I appreciate where you are coming from but I honestly don't care how clever the counter arguments may appear to be, or how dumb. The point for me is that until TK has been demonstrated to exist then what is the point in discussing it as though it was as real as apple pie? It isn't. Period. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 5, 2006 Views: 1276 | RE: Arguments Middle Ground. Why do you think I always attack people or accuse them of being stupid? Look through my posts, there are more than enough to chose from, and find a single post where it is me that starts with the insults. I treat as I am treated. |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: May 7, 2006 Views: 1268 | RE: Arguments Sure. Just thought that considering you have a forum dedicated to discussing the non-existence of TK, a formulated website with responses to some arguments would be at least interesting or amusing. After all, this is apparently part of your entertainment hour. Of course I suppose that it could feel tedious and repetitive pretty quickly. Also, I wasn't necessarily backing the site. Just pointing it out. I haven't finished reading the entire thing myself. |
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