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| Posted By: Dan Posted On: May 19, 2006 Views: 905 | Another covered-wheel video Hello, This is an interesting site and I've enjoyed reading the information you collected and checking out your reproductions of the purported-TK experiments of apparently quite a few people. I think your explanations are generally convincing. As it is, I'm fairly skeptical of claims of paranormal abilities but try to keep an open mind. I found this one video of someone claiming to spin a covered wheel and I was wondering if the way he's using his hands in the video would mean that it is convection or temperature variation or air currents inside the glass or something comparable producing the effect. I ask because you've experimented with it more than I and would probably be able to tell if the proximity of his hands is enough to produce the effect. So far it's the best covered-wheel video I've seen. Not saying "check it out TK is real", just exploring what people out there present as "evidence". Thanks and take care, Dan video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w86hDdUD03o&search=psiwheel%20glass%20con tainer |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 19, 2006 Views: 901 | RE: Another covered-wheel video I have to agree, its the best TK video I have seen. Still only a video though. If he /she can really do it then why aren't they famous? |
| Posted By: Entih Posted On: May 19, 2006 Views: 898 | RE: Another covered-wheel video "Why aren't they famous?" An infamous question, but a pointless one in my opinion. Skeptics often bring this up, but as far as I know, being famous has nothing to do with being telekinetic. Perhaps they don't want to be famous? It is not like all people who are telekinetic would want to be famous. Imagine, all the reporters, all the random people telling you to move things... all the battering of skeptics who doubt you, above all (particularly the bad skeptics who call insanity on every case of a paranormal subject). Truely not worth it if you ask me. But yes, that is one of the best videos I have seen, but then again, it is a video (online above all) and thus can be faked. If only there were not people who faked such things, just so it could be concidered actual proof rather than just some evidence. |
| Posted By: Dan Posted On: May 19, 2006 Views: 889 | RE: Another covered-wheel video Hey Keith, I agree with you. Although I have seen a bunch of people pointing out that Randi is a fraud and that people have tried to claim his prize and for whatever reason they were held up in bureaucratic process, it seems that if one who had these abilities followed his admittedly stringent rules for application and submission that the prize really should be claimed by now. My original question is, how do you think this could not be TK? Are his hands close enough to create some kind of effect from heat? I'm assuming it's not outright faked which it doesn't appear to be to my layperson-eyes. I haven't spent a lot of time trying to spin the psiwheel underneath a glass, but my limited experiments to spin it were fairly fruitless. Without the glass it spins constantly just from whatever minor air current turmoil exists in the room, so I'm assuming quite a few people assume they have TK and then write it off that they can only get it to spin one way or whatever. In any case, I remain curious. It will always detract from the serious scientific pursuit of this field that there are so many people interested in it who insist on speculating wildly as to the methods by which such techniques might work. I have seen so much baseless theorizing about energy fields and gravitation, let alone psiballs and whatever other weirdness people claim to have seen. It just detracts from any serious possibility of creating a reproducible experiment. So once again, in this case, assuming the video isn't faked, to what can we attribute the movement of the pinwheel? Thanks again, Dan |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 20, 2006 Views: 884 | RE: Another covered-wheel video Enith, The argument is often used that people who can do TK do not wish to be famous. This argument does not, in my opinion, hold water. If they did not want it generally known then why post up videos on the world wide web that show them doing it? |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 20, 2006 Views: 882 | RE: Another covered-wheel video Dan, I have had another look at that video. I can offer an explanation of how it may have been done. It has to be understood though that those that believe the video is genuine will rubbish my explanation and suggest it is nonsense that anyone would go to that much trouble to fake it. It is though amazing the lengths some people will go to make a hoax. It gives them a real buzz when they pull it off. Okay. Here is just one way it could be done, and how I would do it without needing any trickery in the actual recording, the video itself would be genuine and that is important because it would then pass any test. The tumbler that is used to cover the psi wheel could have a small hole cut into it in the side away from the camera and nearest to his chest. The tumbler remember is not shown all round at the start as was the base. Hmmmm. A small plastic tube could run up the inside of his T shirt and sewn into position with the opening designed to be at the level of the hole. At the appropriate time air could be blown down the tube which would rotate the psi wheel, only a very gentle puff is needed, we can see how very finely balanced it is. When it has finished rotating one way the guy shifts in his seat (why?) before rotating it the other way. The shift places the air tube more over to the other side thus rotating the wheel the other way. He doesn't change his position much, but he wouldn't have to if the hole was small. Note how very still he sits while doing it, he doesn't move a millimetre, which in itself is very unusual. Hmmmm. I'm not saying that this is what happened, but simply suggesting a way in which it could have happened. There are of course many ways it could have been faked. This is why videos are only good for general interest purposes only. |
| Posted By: Dan Posted On: May 20, 2006 Views: 876 | RE: Another covered-wheel video I don't know man, seems like a little bit of a reach to me. I'm not saying I know what it is, and certainly it is possible for there to be a hole as you suggest, but that seems like it would be a little difficult to disguise. The glass is in view the entire time, it seems like a hole would be fairly evident at some point or another during the video. Also, the tube thing is a little too much. It's true that it *could* have been done that way, but I severely doubt it. So does that mean that you think the heat and air current related methods you used to reproduce the experiments are insufficient to cause this type of movement under the glass? Assuming this is not a deliberate fake, which in your explanation it would be, can you think of another way the movement would've occurred? Maybe we're beating a dead horse but you have to admit it's an interesting video. He does touch the glass before he does the spin trick, but he spins, then moves his hands and stops the spin, then resumes the spin. Without knowing anything about the person, it's hard to say whether a deliberate fake is likely or not, but I'm willing to assign the benefit of the doubt for the sake of determining other possible explanations. It certainly beats the pants off a zillion videos of people with their hands right up to an uncovered pinwheel. Anyway, continued thoughts and evaluation is appreciated. This is all out of pure curiosity. Cheers, Dan |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 20, 2006 Views: 874 | RE: Another covered-wheel video Dan, The thing about videos on the net is that the resolution is very poor. It would be easy to have a small hole in the back of that cover that would be invisible when viewed on the net. I know, I made a few fakes myself remember. With a hole in the cover then all options are open because it is no longer a covered psi wheel, it just looks like one. The wheel could even have been moved by people either side of the camera blowing air (through a straw) across the hole, all sorts of tricks can be done once you allow air in and out. I feel if the guy could really do what it would appear he can do, we would not be having this conversation. Facts are spread and accepted around the world very quickly, tricks get stuck where they are born. |
| Posted By: Kief Posted On: May 21, 2006 Views: 858 | RE: RE: RE: Another covered-wheel video I would say with nearly 100% certainty there object movement is a result of illusion and not a paranormal cause. One reason for this is the way the pinwheel wiggles right before it starts to spin. This is a sure indication of air flowing over a pinwheel. I have done this many times and know that a pinwheel will twitch before it starts to smoothly spin if a gust of air is just a little too much. Using 2 containers makes this sketchy. He could have driven the metal rod into the table and balanced it on that, and then put the glass over it. Problem is, I have done a similar experiment and with some misdirection also make the wheel spin by blowing on it under covered glass on a hard surface. A small unseen object (like a small piece of wire) will lift the container on one corner just slightly enough for air to get through. One could easily blow on it to create the effect. The container looks perfectly flat, but really is not. And of course, the person's face is never seen. (Looking over the video again, the glass surface he places the covering on has bumps on the bottom caused by trademark brands. This could be the way he is lifting the glass to get air under it). Another thing I noticed, with the sound, is his breathing. He takes a breath in before he moves it once. Then it stops and he shifts and takes another breath. My guess is he was going for a deeper breath and readjusting himself to get more air in his lungs (to blow air with). He is also very careful in only showing one side to the top container, which means that yes, a small hole could be on the other side hidden from view. He takes the container off the same way and manner he puts it on. Careful, steady, smooth. It's unnatural, the behavior indicates forethought, meaning trickery is involved. A tube taped to the chest under a shirt is plausible to explain the air flow. It only takes a few tries to find the sweet spot and the right amount of air. The exact method and mechanism are unknown, but I would say this is not paranormal. Why can't a pinwheel be levitated off a pin ever so slightly? A few millimeters is all it takes, so long as it really is happening via paranormal means. If someone did TK, and demonstrated it to the world, there wouldn't be skepticism surrounding it. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 21, 2006 Views: 855 | RE: Another covered-wheel video Kief, I couldn't agree more. The video looks very shaky the more you study it, there are, as we have both said, a number of ways it could be faked. The most important point is made in your last sentence. If TK could really be demonstrated then the world would know it was real. Nuff said. |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: May 23, 2006 Views: 843 | RE: Another covered-wheel video The video looks pretty good to me. Of course, anything can be faked if you're determined enough. If he really is the real deal, then it'd be great if he'd simply demonstrate it to Randi or his nearest university. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 23, 2006 Views: 841 | RE: Another covered-wheel video Placebo, I think we both know he isn't going to ever demonstrate it. |