| RETURN TO TELEKINESIS PAGE - TELEKINESIS -> Reasonable Argument | Start A New Topic | Reply |
| Post Info | TOPIC: Reasonable Argument |
| Posted By: Woodpecker Posted On: Jul 2, 2006 Views: 1497 | Reasonable Argument OK Keith, you have asked many times for someone to debate the existence of tk in a reasonable and well-educated manner. I have found for you what I consider to be such a discussion. This discussion is over one of JoeT's videos of tk. Kief is a biologist and sceptical, JoeT is not. Note how JoeT keeps the topic on scientific grounds throughout. It is worth reading all the pages to get a clear idea of the context of JoeT and Kief's discussion. http://www.psipogbb.net/pb2/viewtopic.php?t=3414&postdays=0&postorder=as c&start=0 The most recent post of JoeT's is one of the best arguments I have ever seen against a sceptic. JoeT is being polite, is basing his argument on scientific study, has lots of information to back up his side and argues on Kief's terms. Also notice how he says he has tried to claim the Randi prize, one of the things you think would prove the existence of tk, and was refused the opportunity to even try. http://www.psipogbb.net/pb2/viewtopic.php?t=3414&postdays=0&postorder=as c&start=60 Is this quality of discussion what you were after, Keith? |
| Posted By: Woodpecker Posted On: Jul 2, 2006 Views: 1496 | RE: Reasonable Argument P.S. Of course I am not trying to persuade you to believe in the existence of tk, only that this is a better-presented argument than can be seen on this forum, and consequently worth reading. And one more question: you complain that tk sites require you to become a member before you can post your opinions on them Why is this a problem? I think you will find that most sites are like this, even the more scientific and respectably ones such as The New Scientist. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jul 2, 2006 Views: 1491 | RE: Reasonable Argument Okay I checked out that site and followed the links. I read a very, very long post which was a discussions about the pros and cons of PK/TK. It led nowhere. None of the links that were used to support 'scientific testing showing PK/Tk'did anything of the sort! If I missed something please point it out. I fail to see the point of the discussion. What did it achieve? |
| Posted By: Sharpe Posted On: Jul 2, 2006 Views: 1488 | RE: RE: Reasonable Argument You know what i'm going to do? I'm going to make millions of illusions and perfect tricks that look perfect on a webcam, then i'm going to make my own site claiming it is a new power that's discovered by me, and then i'm going to become god on the internet. Jezus ****ing christ man, i can't believe how naïve some people are... I now truly understand why Keith has such a bad attitude against people like you. It's because after all those evidences and tests, you people still actually believe that something like that exists... I have read human psychology for 2 years now (as a hobby), some of what i read include: Humans want to feel as individuals, and also Humans have the born instinct to perform better then the others. I assume, most of the people believing TK are doing bad in school, also assuming that most people that believe in TK are 12-16, i also assume most people doing TK have a bad social life, So it all matches: Because all Tk'ers are bad in all parts of their lives, they want to be 'special' in something so that someone will actually care about them. If you still didn't feel the *snap* here, just try to wake up and come to the real world, what you are doing is incorrect, stop saying i'm wrong, stop thinking that at this moment, becaus i know what you are thinking. You are thinking: This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Well, let me put it this way, what you are ACTUALLY thinking has a lot to do with denial, you do NOT want to NOT believe in TK, but something in there is saying... This is bs i'm wasting my time. Let THAT part come out it is the most realistic part, sure having fun in life can be fun... (lol), but living in a real world where you CAN have real fun, real fun like: going out, owning a nice car, house, having succes in every single part of your life. THAT is what matters most, if you leave that behind to believe in something that does not exist, you will be depressed. I'm REALLY trying to help you here. Got the *snap* yet? No? Well ok, i got a new fact, just discovered it a few days ago. A lot of TK's claim people only use 10% of their brain potential, maybe that's the main "focus" in the study of TK. Well i have some shocking news, if you didn't knew, this "claim" is a myth, people use every single percentage of their brain. What scientists may want to say is: we only use 10% as in the conscious mind. I happen to know a lot about the subconscious mind, that is the main principle in the Tk community also, the subconscious mind... though is made for remembering "the map" of our reality, doing thinks that are normal in our culture and of course it's also made to remember memory's. This does not include moving things with a single thought... That is absolutely impossible. Yes we have electromagnetic waves in our brains... But who gives you the right of moving the magnetic wave to somewhere OUT of the mind. And also you need something physical to move things... i mean... electromagnetic waves... they can't even move things... only radiate them, and a piece of paper for a psi-wheel... IT'S PAPER!!! it's not metal! Got the *snap* now??? If you did. Welcome, to the real world (lol). Ok, next step: Subconscious mind, the thing that u were trying to stimulate... is very powerfull thing, espescially for making your "map", now you were hanging out with psipog people for a long time i think, well, what they did was. They made your map, your reality of your brain, the things you believe are motivated by them, in other words: they are the ones ****ing with your mind. LoL, i remember this famous quote of a guy: If you teach a baby after birth in 15 years that 2+2=5, and keep them out of the community they will believe it. Now, take the "baby after birth", "15 years" "2+2=5" away and insert: "12 year old (naïve) kid", "1 motivational and/or emotional experience" and "TK is real", wouldn't you get the same result? If you still didn't get the *snap* now, i'll tell you one last thing: TK is a simple thing for getting a lot of attention, but improving your social and/or working/school skills are harder, but it will give you everyday motivation and the best of all: Happiness. OH MY GOD! that's a real long post. Well, i hope i kinda woke you up lol. |
| Posted By: Woodpecker Posted On: Jul 2, 2006 Views: 1485 | RE: Reasonable Argument No, Sharpe, you misunderstand. All I was saying is that Keith wanted a better argument presented than was being posted on this chatroom. What I think about pk is irrelevant. The link I provide was to a discussion I felt was well-argued on the part of JoeT, and I thought it was closer to what Keith wanted. That is the only point I wanted to make. |
| Posted By: Woodpecker Posted On: Jul 2, 2006 Views: 1484 | RE: Reasonable Argument And you know what? Just for the record, I am still trying to make my mind up over pk, so stop assuming I believe. |
| Posted By: Sharpe Posted On: Jul 2, 2006 Views: 1482 | RE: Reasonable Argument Did you even read... my post? And, good thing you are hanging around here cuz like i wrote in my post, those psipog guys really mess your mind up, ALL of them talk about it as a normal think, which will make you think it's normal and THEN you start to believe. |
| Posted By: Woodpecker Posted On: Jul 2, 2006 Views: 1480 | RE: Reasonable Argument Yes I did. I just re-read it too and It clearly says that you think I believe in tk. You are also trying to argue me out of it, and consider me stupid for believing in it. I have just told you I am making up my mind right now. I have also been a member for about 3 months - not a long time. |
| Posted By: Sharpe Posted On: Jul 2, 2006 Views: 1478 | RE: Reasonable Argument Then i take back that i "assumed" that you believe in TK, but i don't take back the long time part, because i have also written that it takes 1 emotional experience to change your mind about things like this. This mostly happens in cults. btw, fast reply lol. but im gonna sleep after this post so goodnight! |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jul 3, 2006 Views: 1474 | RE: Reasonable Argument Okay. The point that Woodpecker is trying to make is that the debate is one of mutual repect, kind of. Fair enough. However, my point is that even though it may be a reasonably polite discussion, the TK supporter puts in links to sites that he says support scientific validation of TK. I refute that claim. I looked at the links and found no such scientific support. If I missed something then please point it out to me and I will be happy to look at it. That's my only point. The discussion may be polite but the tker did not have any facts to support his claim, although he says he had. |
| Posted By: Woodpecker Posted On: Jul 3, 2006 Views: 1472 | RE: Reasonable Argument Thank you Keith, you saw my point first time. |
| Posted By: Mordak Posted On: Jul 4, 2006 Views: 1460 | RE: Reasonable Argument Hi Sharpe, here is my answer to your text, witch is a flight of lyrism for me. "I have read human psychology for 2 years now (as a hobby), some of what i read include: Humans want to feel as individuals, and also Humans have the born instinct to perform better then the others." Well you seem do be kind of people ! Continu to read and some day you may have more nuance in your opinions. The funniest part is that you think we are all sick ! I have a family, a job, a house, friends I play chess and music, a normal life. And, I do TK. Iam not the best at it, iam sure. « But who gives you the right of moving the magnetic wave to somewhere OUT of the mind. And also you need something physical to move things... i mean... electromagnetic waves... they can't even move things... only radiate them, and a piece of paper for a psi-wheel... IT'S PAPER!!! it's not metal! » That is your opinion probably based on personal experience of life. It definetly not reflect the empirical evidence of those who perform TK. - We dont need any rights to move magnetic waves, just training. - « In » and « out » is not the same at a quantum level. What is « out » for us is not necessarily for electromagnetic waves. - Who said electromagnetic waves are not physical ? Light have a mass in movement. - « They cant even move things. » Well, if you cant perceive it dosent mean that it dosent exists. They affect everythhing. « Only radiate them » .euh radiation is a kind of movement in waves. So i I dont think this statement make sense for established physics. - Who cares about the kind of material. Properties of elements does not necessarily play a role in the process. All kind of atoms have electric charges. If electromatnetic waves can pass trough air, why would it be a problem to swing around paper or even pass trough it. I think you may reconsider the way to abord TK. No offence Mordak |
| Posted By: Mordak Posted On: Jul 4, 2006 Views: 1459 | RE: Reasonable Argument Word missing "Well you seem do be "that" kind of people ! Continu to read and some day you may have more nuance in your opinions." Mordak |
| Posted By: Sharpe Posted On: Jul 5, 2006 Views: 1440 | RE: Reasonable Argument I don't feel offended it's ok, you wrote a good post. Yes, i know i have a discriminant attitude against the TK community. But ok, you were talking about the psi-wheel and the electrones passing through the paper, i understand that. Yet, if you're talking about electrones... you would probably know that paper has a positive charge and it would be... possible if you had a very powerful electrone radiation but i seriously doubt you could get your brain to work that strongly, and if I may include: if that is the case here, you could never move anything bigger then a toothpick. And now i still don't understand why everyone has their hands close to the psi-wheel if THAT is the case. Because, it wouldn't help. Now, if you put your head close to it like 1 inch, i can say that has a minimum probability of working but it CAN work. The protons in the paper will all gather up to the side where your head stands, and if you can radiate the electrons through your bones and skin on your forehead... the chances will grow, so... why do these psipog.net guys use their hands if their brains are the main part working... i dont know? What i don't understand is, if it's all static... why not just use ur hands to move it? I mean, i heard alot of tk'ers say that they don't want to show off their powers... well if your not going to show off, why do it in the first place? So i do think we can both agree that TK is for showing-off, and also if your throwing electrons away from your body... i can't see how that helps you being more spiritual and wiser then everyone else. My conclusion is that TK'ers are no different then normal people. PS: With all due respect... why waste your time and energy on just a small little party trick anyways? (even if it works) |
| Posted By: Sharpe Posted On: Jul 5, 2006 Views: 1438 | RE: Reasonable Argument "I have read human psychology for 2 years now (as a hobby), some of what i read include: Humans want to feel as individuals, and also Humans have the born instinct to perform better then the others." Well you seem to be one of that kind of people ! Continue to read and some day you may have more nuance in your opinions. Well, i'm human ain't I. *giggle* If you think you are a saint, why did you post that in the first place, you want to win this arguement don't you now? You want to win to prove that you're better then me. Let me say another thing: If i say right now that i'm better then you. You would flip, wouldn't you? That's just the Instinct part of the brain, this is normal. Please, don't try to be different then the brain you were born with. I'm not trying to mess your mind, but do know that whether you know telekinesis or not. You aren't any different then any other man. |
| Pages [ 1 2 ] Next Page -> |