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| Posted By: Will Posted On: Jun 27, 2009 Views: 949 | What if? Ok, This little gem is for those of higher intellect. Everyone elses head will explode if they think about it too long. Now everything we know and understand has a beginning and and end. Including the universe. Bear with me. What if the universe never had a beginning, and will never have an end? I want you to really think about this, and it should make your head dizzy, it sure as hell did mine. This is by far the hardest concept I have tried to grasp. Something that has no beginning or end. I am not talking about a circle that repeats itself. I am talking, for lack of a better example, of a line that goes on forever in either direction and always was. It was never created, it never will be destroyed it just was. Now think of the universe as we know it. Never beginning, never ending. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Peace, Will |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jun 27, 2009 Views: 948 | RE: What if? An interesting concept, a universe with no beginning and no end. However, I have two problems with that: 1) The Big Bang theory. We can see that the universe is expanding, this means that in the past it must have been smaller, all the way back to the initial big bang. Every new discovery we make about the universe confirms the Big Bang. Therefore with the Big Bang, the universe - OUR universe - had a definite beginning. 2) Expansion of the universe. As the universe is known to be expanding it cannot possibly be infinite, that would be a contradiction in terms. Your idea about an infinite universe always existing is in fact based on Fred Hoyle´s theory of an unchanging, eternal, infinite universe, it is called the Steady State theory. Even the great man, Einstein, originally belied it to be true until his calculations showed that gravity did not allow for the universe to remain static, it would all collapse in upon itself, unless it was expanding at a rate fast enough to overcome gravity. Edwin Hubble, the famous astronomer, then proved by observation of red shift that galaxies were moving away from us, and each other, thus proving that the universe was expanding. The Steady State theory was then unceremoniously dumped in the "It seemed a good idea at the time" recycling bin. An infinite universe with no beginning and no end goes directly against all scientific observations and theories. |
| Posted By: Will Posted On: Jun 28, 2009 Views: 945 | RE: What if? The purpose of this post is not to refute that the universe is infinite. It is a conceptual idea that most people can't grasp. Like the idea that if you gave an infinite amount of monkeys an infinite amount of typwriters, one would eventually write war and peace, the bible etc. I have heard rationalizations like,"well if there was no one around to understand it, then it is just gibberish" to "No even with an infinite of everything they couldn't do it" They point is to see if you can begin to grasp the idea that something can have no beginning and no end yet still exist. I to believe the big bang theory, if not for the research that proves it, then for the simple fact it is much easier for my little brain to grasp. |
| Posted By: Matt Posted On: Jun 28, 2009 Views: 943 | RE: What if? Another concept that seems pretty simple, but when you think about in just the rigt way you almost begin to feel sick. And thats the idea of death. Really try to grasp the concept of death, assuming no afterlife, and just nothingness |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jun 28, 2009 Views: 936 | RE: What if? I do not think it possible for the human mind to grasp the concept of a thing having no beginning. Those of a religious nature take the easy option and say God created the universe and He has always existed. That is just not an acceptable answer. There is no acceptable answer because it means that either something always existed or something was created from nothing, which is equally unacceptable. In other words, there is no way to explain or understand a thing being for ever for it would mean it was never created, it just is and always has been and always will be. Hmmmmmm. |
| Posted By: Will Posted On: Jul 24, 2009 Views: 891 | RE: What if? Death, for me, is not hard to grasp. I simply see it as falling into a dreamless sleep where you don't think feel etc. and not waking up. What is hard for me to grasp is the afterlife. All of the energy that makes me me, decomposes into the earth. If energy is neither created or destroyed, then what is left to go into the afterlife. Besides, the thought that something might judge me for being me after I die does scare the **** out of me. But fear is not my reason for not believing, logic is. |
| Posted By: Scott Posted On: Nov 7, 2009 Views: 763 | RE: What if? Sorry if it seems like I'm jumping on board to some of these topics late, I just found this site. I don't find the concept of forever difficult to grasp. As in always was and always will be. It just means that from the point we are at right now(the present) everything has existed in some form or another forever backwards(in the past) and will always exist(future). What makes it seems impossible to grasp is that we want to imagine a beginning and an end which is not possible for this situation. But I do agree that it is impossible to think all the way back forever and all the way forward forever for to do such a thing would take... well... forever. But not impossible to grasp the concept. I feel the same about creating something from nothing, although in my opinion its impossible, I find it easily imiginable. The only flaw is that if stuff(planets and whatnot) just appeared at one point why wouldn't they still be appearing or if they are, why haven't we noticed? Just speculating about these topics by looking at them as if they were plausible. And for my opinion on the third topic, death. I am a semi-religious person, following christianity, though I currently don't have a strong set of beliefs. This being said I would really like to believe that there is an afterlife that what essentially makes me(my conscious awareness of self) gets to go to and keep existing indefinitely, though I'm not going to claim this to be the case. I would like to say though that, Will, you say all of the energies that make you you will decompose into the earth. Therefore the energies of one object(a dead person) will be merging with the energies of another or multiple objects(ground, grass, ect.). Just saying that that sound alot like the basis of a way of doing PK/TK I read about where you realize your essence or energy or whatever and the energy of another object then reach out with your energy to manipulate the energy of the object thus manipulating the object yourself. If you can believe everything is made of up energy(you and the earth included), could you believe that these energies could be consciously manipulated even if only on the atomic level? Just a whole lot of food for thought that I wanted to share after reading this thread. Please reply if you still follow this site I would like to hear what everyone thinks. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Nov 8, 2009 Views: 759 | RE: What if? Scott, I will address just of your points, the rest I will leave to others as I have covered them enough. "The only flaw is that if stuff(planets and whatnot) just appeared at one point why wouldn't they still be appearing or if they are, why haven't we noticed?" Planets did not just appear like a rabbit out of a hat. All matter gradually formed from the initial radiation out of the Big Bang then was gravitationally attracted to form stars.... and so on. Best to look it up. Stars and planets are still being formed today and can be viewed through ground based telescopes and of course the HST. |