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Posted By: Pc

Posted On: Jul 30, 2003
Views: 5436
Daisy

The goverment did not allow anything. These things happened because that is what the people like you and me allowed to happen. As a matter of fact most of the laws that get passed, that everyone thinks is great, were not a result of what the populas wanted, rather what they did not. I think that my analogy is perfect and you have just proved it for me.


Posted By: Daisy

Posted On: Jul 30, 2003
Views: 5441
PC

Your pro-government jargon has to be a joke. How can you compare the voting populace to children and politicians to the all-knowing parents? A bad analogy for several reasons, the primary reason being the number of terrible parents running around out there.

Seems to me these all-knowing leaders prevented women from voting and enabled slavery and encouraged separate but equal policies for years after the bulk of the country wanted change. But I guess someone like you would say that they knew what was best for the country?


Posted By: pc

Posted On: Jul 30, 2003
Views: 5446
Rigmus

other than the jackhole comment, you seem ok. So here goes. The term politician means leadership. Leadership is the fundemental element of goverment and its true purpose. It is not to dicuss, it is to lead and leading requires decisive nature. It is not unlike parenting, it is not for the parents to make the children happy at every turn. It is to make them safe and secure and provided for. Children, even though they are part of the family, are not part of decision process, because they have no idea of the complexity of running a household. We are no different. We elect officials to lead us as citizens and sometimes we don't like what happens. We are not able to see the big picture and therefore complain like children. A good leader will listen to what people and disregard it with understanding that the people don't know the whole story and their experience in these matters is little. I understand that it is important for people to beheard, but the people change their opinion everyday and a good leader will not be affected by the fickle ideals of the people.


Posted By: Daisy

Posted On: Jul 30, 2003
Views: 5449
Rock the Boat, people!

I'm surprised that during this whole conversation not one of you mentioned the word democracy. That's what we're supposed to have, aren't we?

I mean, we're ALL qualified to make decisions about what goes on in our country. For anyone to say "leave the big thoughts to the qualified politicians" isn't only laughable it's despicable.

If these elected officials really represented the people there wouldn't be a need for lobbyists, good or bad.


Posted By: rigmus

Posted On: Jul 30, 2003
Views: 5462
pc sounds like a jackhole...

pc, you know exactly what he was saying... you sport the distainful feelings and ideas of a dictator. i got that and according to nik ashmost im dumb. anyway molly's so right here, how the hell can you plan to know everything and "just decide"??? discussions provide you with useful information and valid oppositional points. discussion is the back bone politics... why to we have all of our capitol buildings on the maps as landmarks and monuments if their purpose is so pointless?? i really think it's you that doesnt understand politics... i mean just like we can't pretend to know what a politican's job is like, you can't pretend to know exactly what the best decision is.


Posted By: PC

Posted On: Jul 30, 2003
Views: 5473
Mr Nyo

If you open mouth please try to stay somewhere the coversation point. You are silly and make no sense and really have nothing to say. Good luck.


Posted By: Mr. Nyo

Posted On: Jul 30, 2003
Views: 5478
Hey PC

Plain and simple...you're a dope.

I'm sorry Saddam's not in power anymore. You could have gone to Iraq and lived under a real leader. Per your description, he was a great "Success" (at least until this year). Perhaps there's a nice spot for you in Iran or Syria.


Posted By: PC

Posted On: Jul 30, 2003
Views: 5491
Molly

I can see that you have never been in position of leadership. Discussion in your opinion is the key to succesful politics. This is the opinion of someone who has never truley lead. Successful leadership does not discuss, it decides. The reason why there is no discussion is that the person leading has much more experience than you do and able to lead much more than you can. The problem is people think that they can do the job of a politician or even have the slighest idea of what doing the job of a politicain is. We only see what is presented to us by the media and that is never the whole story. Does someone who has never done your job understand what you do? You seem fairly intelligent, it is shame that don't have enough experience in life to understand this.


Posted By: Martian Molly

Posted On: Jul 30, 2003
Views: 5492
discourse

Discussions are important, ya dimwit ya. If for no other reason, you can find out if you really are just a crybaby. Or you can find out that you aren't just a paranoid loon and that other people also see the problems with the system, etc. etc. At a more advanced level (read: over yer head), ideas can be exchanged and solutions proposed and refined or rejected. Then, if someone decides to 'step up and take a swing', they can take a prepared, intelligent approach and stand a chance at being taken seriously. I agree that politics are necessary. I agree that actions are better than words. I agree that plain old whining sucks. But discussions are important, even if they do burst your happy little bubble and force you to face the facts.


Posted By: PC

Posted On: Jul 30, 2003
Views: 5500
Politics

I think that politics are fine. Politics are inevitable to a society of people living together and are a direct reflection of the individuals of that society. Politicians are only out to do what they believe is important and rightly so. It is their job to what they think it the best job they can do for what they think is important. This is what we all do every day at our jobs. There are always going to be crybabies that think that there are problems with system, corrupt politicians and bad policy. I have this to say.

Shut UP for two reasons
1. You( the people) elected them.

2. Step and take a swing, instead of just talking and crying about the need for change.


Posted By: Stephanie

Posted On: Jul 30, 2003
Views: 5502
I remember

Back when I was in school, we made trips to watch the sessions of city council, the provincial government's sessions. Both were pathetic. I could not believe that the people running the city/province were such complete crybabies. It was all about apologizing for calling so and so a name last session. And notying truly serious got done. I sincerly hope that I was there on "off days" and that wasn't the norm......... but I fear it was.

When I moved to our nation's capital (Ottawa) for a 4 month period........ I again went to Parliment hill and sat in on a session..... there was a lot more happening, translators, more formal tours etc........ BUT the seats were empty....... not even half the parliment members/backbenchers were even there!

I have a vague recollection someone told me that if you watch this stuff on tv, you notice people shuffling around behind the scenes to make the seats look fuller than they are........

It was a rude awaking for me....


Posted By: Martian Molly

Posted On: Jul 29, 2003
Views: 5544
anyone?

Aww, c'mon. Say something. The point is this: search out these meetings. The more people who show up and talk about their own self interests, the more dilute the spoiled as**SS political favortites' opinions are. Especially at the local level. Start small. Act all tall.


Posted By: Martian Molly

Posted On: Jul 29, 2003
Views: 5753
got involved

I regularly attended political action committee (party policy and agenda steering) meetings in a suburban New Orleans district for a term, in response to Mr. "Get involved or shut up". I thought I'd be a part of the civil system. Noble pursuit and all that. I quickly was disheartened by the whole thing because no one on the committee, or those who attended the meetings had any other motive except their own self interests. A lot of NOT IN MY BACKYARDers or MY BUSINESS NEEDS AN INSIDE FRIENDers. I stopped trying to do the right thing (raising issues about the populace, etc.) in the meetings and eventually quit going. It was depressing. I still vote, by the way, but it got a lot harder after that.


Posted By: Chance Furlong

Posted On: Jul 28, 2003
Views: 5861
Oh, and...

Anytime someone says "Just do X and all the problems would be solved", you can be sure all the problems will NOT be solved by doing X. Getting rid of Republican farmers won't solve the worlds problems any more than getting rid of the Democrats, CEOs, lawyers, hippies, or professional bowlers will.

CF


Posted By: Chance Furlong

Posted On: Jul 28, 2003
Views: 5840
Lying?

Politicians wouldn't lie if the public didn't constantly vote for the biggest liars. They're simply doing what works.

CF


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