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| Posted By: Al Nigro Posted On: Jan 12, 2003 Views: 2255 | How will it all end? Ok, lets just say Im new at this so here goes, As we know matter gives off energy. If the universe is expanding then all matter must be expanding. If this is true then this would change matter. As the energy increases matter will continue to change and evolve just as its been since the beginning of time. If you think about it when and if the universe stops expanding so do we. There would be no waiting for the universe to collapse in on its self it would just simply stop! Al Nigro |
| Posted By: Glenn Cummings Posted On: Jan 13, 2003 Views: 2253 | RE: How will it all end? I believe that it is impossible to determine how the universe will finally make its end, as there are so many variables that must be taken into account. It should not concern us also how the universe will finally end as the human race and any future evolutions that may arrive during our time will be long gone by then. Whether it is by the sun exploding and engulfing the earth, god ending the universe or even as far fetched and impossible as it may ANOTHER big bang within our universe and the cannibalistic nature of matter resulting in universe being 'eaten up' from the inside out. Despite this theory being seen as impossible I believe that nothing is impossible as the future has not been written yet and the seemingly impossible does sometimes happen. After all the big bang theory Does State that the entire universe was created from what previously was nothing. In closing I re-emphasise the fact that it is very hard but not impossible to work out how the universe will end and we should concern ourselves more with our universes current affairs and where the human race is heading and our collective fate. I look forward to your replies. G. Cummings |
| Posted By: Al Nigro Posted On: Jan 13, 2003 Views: 2247 | RE: How will it all end? The Big Bang theory states, The entire universe was created from what previously was nothing. How can you make something from nothing? Do you believe this part of the theory? Can anyone make heads or tails of this for me? Al |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jan 15, 2003 Views: 2241 | RE: How will it all end? I agree, it doesn't make sense, but then it doesn't have to does it, the Universe just IS. I had a go at explaining it in my page "Where did the Universe come from?" and came up with the following conclusion. Either it has always existed (or something else has, such as where the Big Bang came from) or alternatively it (or the something else) must have been created from nothing. I can see no other alternative. Even introducing God into the equation does not help, for then the question just regresses a step and we have to ask where God came from. The only explanation I have found so far, I forget the source, is that the Big Bang is a "white hole" which is the opposite of a black hole, so that matter is expelled from it rather than sucked into it. This implies however that there must be a black hole in another Universe, so we are back to infinite regression again. Perhaps someone else can offer an explanation? Keith |
| Posted By: Praveen Posted On: Jan 18, 2003 Views: 2231 | RE: How will it all end? ok lets just take a rubber band as an example. The universe is like a rubber band. Before you expand it, its small. But when you are expanding it, it grows bigger. This is the stage the universe is in, right now, its expanding. But one time, when u stop expanding and just hold it, then, it will neither expand nor contract. But when u release it, it starts contracting very fast. So, the universe will come to a stage when it will neither expand nor contract. Then, it will start contracting faster than it expanded. Then, the big bang will take place all over again!!! |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jan 18, 2003 Views: 2229 | RE: How will it all end? You may be right in saying that the Universe will re-collapse, but the latest findings are that the rate of expansion is increasing, not slowing down. I'm afraid your example of the rubber band is not a good one, the fate of the Universe depends on its total mass, which is unknown, and what the energy is that is driving the rate of expansion to increase, which is also unknown. It looks at the moment that the Universe is represented by the 'open' model, which will continue to expand for ever and die of eventual heat loss, entropy. But this view could change of course. Keith |
| Posted By: Carl Rofe Posted On: Jan 19, 2003 Views: 2221 | RE: How will it all end? Consider the following idea: If you can move a single electron, by any amount, and manipulate the forces so energy, momentum and whatever else aren't conserved, you have either created or destroyed energy! If you did this, the universe may cease to exist. If you changed the amount of energy the universe is made up of, you should have destroyed it, because existence must be conserved! If you didn't destroy it... Imagine an infinite amount of energy. An endless amount. If you add/take a finite amount of energy to/from it, the amount doesn't change! Maybe you didn't add/take anything. But hey, you know you did (lets say). Click! You didn't add/take anything because there wasn't anything to add/take! => (i'm referring to both what you added/took and what you started with) You start with nothing...and have nothing left! If, by E=mc^2, energy cannot be created or destroyed, then the above idea clearly violates this law! Of the experiment is impossible, then you have proved something! Can any body understand this? |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jan 20, 2003 Views: 2218 | RE: How will it all end? You say: "If you can move a single electron, by any amount, and manipulate the forces so energy, momentum and whatever else aren't conserved, you have either created or destroyed energy!" You then go on to say: "If, by E=mc^2, energy cannot be created or destroyed, then the above idea clearly violates this law!" What is the point of these comments? Energy IS conserved. Your comment amounts to saying if 2+2 =5 we have proved maths wrong. So what? What have we learned from that statement? |
| Posted By: Al Nigro Posted On: Jan 20, 2003 Views: 2216 | RE: How will it all end? Keith, You say, It looks at the moment that the Universe is represented by the 'open' model, which will continue to expand forever and die of eventual heat loss, entropy. This is what I was trying to say in my original statement. When I say matter is expanding I meant growing, changing, reacting with its self to continue to grow (expand). After all this is how matter seems to work on earth. Things are born, die and feed more things that are born then die and feed more things and so on. I think this is the model for everything in the universe. This is why we must continue to expand. When the expansion stops we stop or like you said eventual heat loss, entropy. |
| Posted By: keith Mayes Posted On: Jan 20, 2003 Views: 2213 | RE: RE: How will it all end? Hi Al, I think you are saying that matter is expanding because the Universe is. You said in your first comment: "If the universe is expanding then all matter must be expanding. If this is true then this would change matter" The only thing that is expanding is the Universe, space itself, the matter that it contains is not itself expanding, nor can the amount of energy contained within the Universe change. In your last comment you change this to say that matter reacts and changes over time, which is true. After all the atoms that we are made up of was once part of the furnace inside a star. Keith |
| Posted By: Carl Rofe Posted On: Jan 20, 2003 Views: 2209 | RE: How will it all end? We assume energy is conserved, because we can't figure otherwise. Energy is conserved only within the parameters we set. We don't know for sure that ours is the only "verse", therefore we cannot say for sure that it is. You say space is expanding. I agree, it is. Space IS energy. Time IS energy. Everything is made of "energy". Energy IS potential difference. Everything has dimensions. Space is comprised of dimensions. Earth is made of dimensions. Dimensions are unavoidable. Dimensions are a form of energy. (Energy exists, because that's the only thing it can do!). Everything is connected in that such way. Mass is a sum of fields. Fields are a form of dimensions. Mass is not just mass. Mass has ambient fields which cannot be eliminated. I have ambient fields protruding from me. I am a sum of dimensions, with specific properties. Unless you can phyically prove something beyond all doubt, many people like to pick holes it, and have good reason to. The fewer quams we have, the less people question it; on the road to perfection. And until perfection is reached, people will be sceptical. Opinion: It won't end, because it is not capable of doing so. Many people, including me, don't accept "it just is". If the explanation is big and hard to understand, so be it. "the simplest explanation, is most often the hardest". "simplicity buried in complexity": John Maddox: What Remains to be discovered. |
| Posted By: Al Nigro Posted On: Jan 20, 2003 Views: 2205 | RE: RE: How will it all end? Carl, How are you? I got to say I have read your statements and Im not sure if your talking over my head or just in confusing circles. I see some interesting statements developing at times and then as quick as I get it I lose it. Anyone feel the same as me? Al |
| Posted By: Al Nigro Posted On: Jan 20, 2003 Views: 2203 | RE: How will it all end? Keith, I would like to thank you for you comments. Your writing is clear and to the point and tends to help me fine tune my ideas. Al |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jan 21, 2003 Views: 2201 | RE: How will it all end? Hi Carl, I fail to see what point you are trying to make with your last comment and how it answers my point to you, which is what is the point of making a false proposition and then declaring it to be false? You now say "Mass is not just mass. Mass has ambient fields which cannot be eliminated. I have ambient fields protruding from me." I really don't know what this all about, sounds more like metaphysics to me. What 'ambient fields' protude from you exactly? You also say "We assume energy is conserved, because we can't figure otherwise". You are wrong, the conservation of energy is not assumed, it is a proven scientific fact. I do not see any logic to your arguments, just a mishmass of disjointed ideas. What is your point exactly? Keith |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jan 21, 2003 Views: 2199 | RE: How will it all end? Hi Al, The Big Bang topic can be as complicated or as simple as you wish to make it. It is not necessary to understand the equations of general relativity (which I do not) in order to understand the underlying basic concepts. I wouldn't worry about not understanding Carl, I also have no idea of what he is trying to say. Judging by his other comments on this and other polls on this site, I get the impression that he likes to try and impress us with his vast knowledge, which is in fact a bit shaky. Keith CLICK ON PAGE 2 FOR CONTINUATION OF THIS TOPIC |
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