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| Posted By: Steve Posted On: Mar 26, 2003 Views: 296 | Why I reluctantly support regime change in Iraq Witnesses tell of atrocities By Leo Schlink in London 14mar03 CHILLING new details of Saddam Hussein's reign of terror in Iraq have been revealed. Researchers preparing an indictment of Saddam for crimes against humanity detailed evidence of torture, murder and ethnic cleansing gathered from witnesses in northern Iraq over the past few weeks. Their horrific report included eyewitness testimony of prisoners being killed by being fed through industrial shredders and children being gassed in jail. British MPs heard an impassioned plea for military intervention from Shanaz Rachid, daughter of prominent Kurdish leader Ibrahim Ahmed, who accused the international community of standing by for more than two decades while the Iraqi people suffered under Saddam. Iraqi Kurds and Shi'ite Muslims would welcome war to unseat the dictator, but were fearful that chemical weapons would be used to massacre them if US and UK troops withdrew from the area without toppling him, she said. Ms Rachid was scathing about the role of French President Jacques Chirac in leading opposition to war, which she said the Kurdish people would not "easily forget". Presenting evidence to MPs at the House of Commons, researchers from Indict the organisation gathering evidence to prosecute Saddam and his henchmen said many of the stories they were told were so horrific they were difficult to believe. But there was a "remarkable consistency" in evidence from many different sources, which boosted its credibility. Witnesses had told them about prisoners of the regime having finger and toenails torn out, being given electric shocks to the genitals, tortured with boiling water and beaten. Women were suspended by the hair or legs in front of their families and raped while their husbands were forced to watch. Saddam's son Qusay the head of Iraq's security and intelligence agencies had administered mustard gas on prisoners, including a 12-year-old boy whose father heard his screams from a neighbouring cell, they were told. Saddam's special adviser Barzan al-Tikriti, Iraq's former representative on the UN Commission on Human Rights, had personally taken part in the torture of detainees before their execution. One witness, who spent 15 years in jail after being accused of using a false surname, described a particularly horrific method of execution: "There was a machine designed for shredding plastic. Men were dropped into it and we were . . . made to watch. "Sometimes they went in head first and died quickly. Sometimes they went in feet first and died screaming. It was horrible. I saw 30 people die like this. "Their remains would be placed in plastic bags and we were told they would be used as fish food." |
| Posted By: Steve Posted On: Mar 26, 2003 Views: 291 | RE: Why I reluctantly support regime change in Iraq Title: "Iraq's Rights Record Compared to Khmer Rouge, Idi Amin." Speaking at the National Press Club, UN Human Rights rapporteur Max Van der Stoel said that violations of human rights by the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein are among of the worst since World War II, comparable in gravity to the crimes of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia or Idi Amin in Uganda, an intolerable situation. (920326) Translated Title: Comparan historial derechos humanos de Irak con los del Khmer rojo e Idi Amin.; Irak: atteintes `intolerables` aux droits de l`homme. (920326) Author: HOLMES, NORMA (USIA STAFF WRITER) Date: 19920326 Text: IRAQ'S RIGHTS RECORD COMPARED TO KHMER ROUGE, IDI AMIN (Van der Stoel comments on human rights report) (710) By Norma Holmes USIA Staff Writer Washington -- Violations of human rights by the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein "are one of the worst since World War Two -- comparable in gravity to crimes of the Khmer Rouge (in Cambodia) or Idi Amin (in Uganda)," U.N. Human Rights Rapporteur Max Van der Stoel said here March 26. Van der Stoel, who reported to the United Nations on the human rights situation in Iraq, told reporters at the National Press Club that the Iraqi regime's reign of terror "is an intolerable situation" and "the people in power are ruthless." He said the whole picture "is even more horrifying because the regime does not focus its reprisals on 'saboteurs,' but entire families." He said all segments of the Iraqi population are suffering -- not only Kurds, but Syrians, Turkomen, and especially the Shia clergy. "We have to be worried about it," he said. Van der Stoel said 17,000 Iraqi disappearances have been reported, usually after arrest by the secret police. He added, however, "I am quite certain we have to speak in terms of many tens of thousands," because families of the missing, both inside and outside, often do not report disappearances, fearing reprisal. The United Nations Security Council created a special commission on human rights in Iraq in March 1991 and requested its chairman to appoint a special rapporteur to make "a thorough study of the violations of human rights by the government of Iraq." Van der Stoel said the commission's special report submitted to the U.N. secretary general on February 18 is based on exhaustive investigations, including interviews of Iraqis living in refugee camps in Saudi Arabia, exiles in Iran and Europe as well as written documents, video and audio tapes, and personal interviews with Iraqi officials. In the end, "all evidence pointed in the same direction...what comes forth is that no method has been spared by the Iraqi government to break any possible resistance." He said forms of torture include electric shock, severe beatings to the point of permanently crippling, chemical attacks, and incarceration. "Many, many people with whom I spoke still carry the evidence of torture," he said. "I mention this because of how serious the situation is, and how necessary it is to take these unusual measures." He said the report takes an unusual turn in recommending that the United Nations appoint a number of human rights monitors to visit various places of detention, in the hope of deterring further persecutions by the regime. Van der Stoel said the regime of Saddam Hussein "is one of the most authoritarian since World War II," and that makes him pessimistic about chances for any future change of the regime. "Torture is inherent to the character of the regime...which is completely dominated by Saddam Hussein," Van der Stoel stressed. In conducting the thorough investigation mandated by the United Nations, Van der Stoel said, he discussed the disappearance of a number of Shia clerics directly with Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz. "He suggested that they may have left the country or might of have been killed in the uprising," Van der Stoel recalled. "I replied that, according to evidence that I had collected, the arrests had occurred after the (Spring) disturbances, and nothing has been heard from them since. How is that possible?" the rapporteur asked. He said Aziz responded, "If they have been executed, I'm not going to apologize for this." Similar statements have been provided by other officials in the regime, including the present minister of defense, who, as secretary general of organizations, was previously in charge of the regime's Kurdish persecutions. Van der Stoel said he has in his possession a tape recording of the official whose identity has been verified who stated that his "way of looking after the families of what he calls saboteurs (the Kurds) -- and the best way to deal with them -- is to bury them." Evidence that this is an operating philosophy, he said, can be seen in the almost total absence of Shia clergy on the village streets of Iraq. "There were 10,000 clerics last Spring, before the uprising in Iraq; barely 800 after; and now hardly any can be seen anywhere." The Security Council, concerned with the ongoing persecution of Iraqi civilians, on April 5, 1991, enacted Resolution 688, demanding that Iraq immediately end the repression of the Iraqi civilian population, including Kurds. Resolution 688 insists that Iraq allow immediate access by the U.N. and humanitarian organizations to all those in need of assistance. Earlier this month, the U.N. Commission on Human Rights condemned Iraq for "massive" human rights violations, including genocide of the Kurds. |
| Posted By: Steve Posted On: Mar 26, 2003 Views: 288 | RE: Why I reluctantly support regime change in Iraq Why I Am For The War On Iraq By Jennifer Rocha TVI Times Reporter March 11, 2003 In the spirit of freedom of speech, I would like to say that I support Bush and his efforts in seeking a war on Iraq. I would not normally feel the need to share my views, given that the pro-war opinion is viewed as the less noble. However, since there is no shortage of expressions of opposition to the war, I felt the need to be a voice for those of us on the other side of the issue. I want to be clear that I do not want this war. I dont think anyone does. However, I support it because I feel it is the only solution. Though our methods are different, I think we all want the same thing: peace. I see Saddam Hussein as monster, a second Hitler. I see him as a man torturing and starving his people. He is a threat, not only to Iraq, but to the entire world. I see no other way to stop him than to attack. Some feel that we should leave the Iraqi culture alone, that Iraqis want to keep their current way of life. I ask those who believe that: Did the Jews want the situation Hitler forced upon them? I dont think so. I think that is a cowardly excuse to not help people who are so obviously in need. There is no other nation who can stop Hussein. The United States must do it. I am not blind to the casualties that will occur and neither are the men and women who will sacrifice their lives for our country. That is a fact we must accept and appreciate long after those soldiers are killed. I find it offensive that while men and women are suiting up to give their lives for international peace, there are so many who oppose their efforts. This war is horrible and unwanted, as every war is but it is necessary if we are to have peace. On March 7, the United States, Great Britain and Spain gave Saddam ten days to dismantle his weapons of mass destruction. White House officials have made it clear that they intend to act without U.N. approval if necessary. I really question the impact protestors will have on Bushs actions. Will he stop the war if enough Americans complain? I think not. Bush wants Saddam gone and I cant understand who wouldnt. Reports of Saddams atrocities towards his people have come from even those closest to him. CNN interviewed Hussein Kamel Hussein, a son-in-law of Saddam Hussein, in 1995. Kamel said: Torture has risen to a brutal level that is unimaginable. There are many allegations that were fabricated so that officials could seize peoples lands or their homes. I know of places where people were executed in the thousands. They were buried in mass graves; 4,600 young people have died as a result of one fabricated claim. They called them through the loudspeakers of the mosques and they were accused of trying to form armed opposition groups. They were gathered together and shot. The UK British Government released a dossier of human rights abuses allegedly perpetrated by the Iraqi regime. It entails sickening accounts of rape, torture and the use of chemical attacks by Saddam Husseins henchmen. Anyone who does not want this war should read the file. The report stated: Torture is systematic in Iraq. The most senior figures in the regime are personally involved. Saddam has, through the RCC, issued a series of decrees establishing severe penalties (amputation, branding, cutting off of ears, or other forms of mutilation) for criminal offences. In mid-2000, the RCC approved amputation of the tongue as a new penalty for slander or abusive remarks about the President or his family. Iraqi TV has broadcast pictures of these punishments as a warning to others. It is no shock that between three and four million Iraqis, about 15 percent of the population, have fled their homeland rather than live under Saddam Husseins regime. The dossier also described what life is like being female in Iraq. According to the dossier, under Saddam Husseins regime women lack even the basic right to life. A 1990 decree allows male relatives to kill a female relative in the name of honor without any punishment. Raping female political prisoners is part of the regimes policy. In addition, women in Iraq suffer from genital mutilation as a culturally accepted practice. A large percentage of women in Iraq and other middle-eastern countries suffer extreme brutality and mutilation, including having their genitalia mutilated. This practice is not only condoned, it is enforced by the regime. This war will kill people, and some of these will be innocent people. However, Saddam has caused more death and inhumanity than this war could? We want to stop this dictator from his reign of terror. Saddam kills out of pure evil. The dossier reported estimates of over 100,000 Kurds killed or disappearing in the Anfal campaigns, which included the use of chemical weapons. The Iran-Iraq war resulted in an estimated 1 million Muslim casualties, 450,000 to 730,000 Iranian casualties and 150,000 to 340,000 Iraqi casualties. Iraqi troops killed and injured up to 15,000 Muslim Kurds in a single day in a chemical weapon attack on the town of Halabja. Saddam will not stop at torture. He will sacrifice his own people without a thought. He has done so in the past and he will do so again. What I want is for Saddam Hussein to be gone for good. His people should have the freedom they so desperately want and deserve. I understand that many protest this war and I dont question their motives. However, I have yet to see a protester with a solution on the sign. I doubt I will ever see one, because there is no other solution. |
| Posted By: JSK Posted On: Mar 26, 2003 Views: 280 | RE: Why I reluctantly support regime change in Iraq And just wait until the prick Saddam & his regeem is taken out . Then you'll hear a lot more of the truth. JSK |
| Posted By: Dionysus Posted On: Mar 27, 2003 Views: 277 | Two sides to the coin Jubilation turns to hate as aid arrives Burhan Wazir in Zubayr, Iraq Thursday March 27, 2003 The Guardian The young man wearing the brown shawl summed it up succinctly: "We want you to go back home. We do not want your American and British aid," he said, his eyes flashing with anger. If the British humanitarian taskforce had any doubts as to the legitimacy of his claims, the sudden burst of gunfire from a nearby building left no one in any doubt. The first attempt to deliver aid to the Iraqi people was, in all respects, a practical and logistical disaster. A convoy of vehicles, including two water tankers and as many Warrior armoured vehicles, had set off from the abandoned Shaiba airfield earlier. The intent was to deliver food and water to win over the hearts and minds of the beleaguered Iraqis. As the convoy pulled up inside the town, however, a crowd of predominantly young men ran towards it. Fights and skirmishes broke out for bottles of water. Iraqis asked for food and cigarettes. And while a cordon was quickly created, hundreds rushed towards the trucks, overpowering the soldiers. "We have had no water and no food," said Ali Abdullah, 50. He stood away from the crowd, stroking his beard and surveyed the scene intently as crowds of young men fought over the water. "For five days now, we have been without electricity. Have you brought some electricity?" The exercise had been beset with a number of difficulties from the outset. On leaving the nearby Shaiba airfield - a series of abandoned hangars, runways and outbuildings on the road to Basra - there had been innumerable delays as reports of violence filtered back from Zubayr. Earlier, there had been a delay in confirming security in the town. Inside Zubayr, however, the distribution initially began with good nature. Young men joked with each other, smiled and passed around bottles of water. Within 10 minutes, however, an undercurrent of resentment flowed to the surface. The war, the bombing, sanctions and their cumulative toll all boiled over. Jalil Ali, 25, the young Iraqi in the brown shawl, asked if any of the humanitarian aid was being provided by Americans. "Take it back," he yelled, pretending to push it away. "We want the Americans to go back home. We do not need them here. Go back home. I do not need this." Around him, his friends giggled. Not far away, people rushed out of earthen buildings and raced down a dual carriageway. Ali, however, seemed to realise the irony only too well. "They bomb. And now they want to give water and food. How can they do both? How?" It was then that the gunfire erupted. Earlier, the soldiers had been optimistic but pensive. After enduring a rainy and windy night in the disused hangar at the Shaiba airfield, the convoy had been well intentioned. It was a curious sight: a line of trucks bearing much-needed humani tarian aid - aid that betrayed all the hallmarks of an occupying force, but aid none the less. The Iraqis, while initially jubilant, were quickly sceptical. "I need electricity," said Moyed Abdullah, 33. "I need to power my house. See the electricity lines? They are not working; they have not been working for days. Do you bring any electricity?" Around him, British and US soldiers struggled to control the crowds. Time and again, the Iraqis were pushed back - always, they seemed to slip in under the makeshift rope-line. After a while, it seemed, it was better simply to stand back and wait for the inevitable to happen. The burst of gunfire from across the road finally stopped all attempts to supply the aid. As soldiers leapt into the jeeps, a Warrior turned round and took out the position the gunfire had come from. And with daylight fast fading, the humanitarian taskforce decided to speed back to its base at Shaibah airfield. Tomorrow, they will undoubtedly try again to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi civilians. And presumably tomorrow, they will encounter yet more resentment. Cheers Dio |
| Posted By: Steve Posted On: Mar 27, 2003 Views: 270 | RE: Why I reluctantly support regime change in Iraq Yes, I am aware that some Iraqis are not welcoming the troops. Of course, I could also cite instances of citizens literally dancing in the streets after Allied forces moved into their areas. I have also read that Iraqis are hesitant to say anything negative or look anything but supportive of Saddam because of the Coalition's failure to back the uprisings in the early 90s, which led to the torture and death of thousands of civilians. I don't know. I will say that if it becomes clear that the majority of Iraqis are truly against this operation, then I will alter my views. I don't, however, think that is going to happen; in fact, when this thing is over, I think we'll see jubilation instead of hostility. Time will tell. |
| Posted By: legion Posted On: Mar 27, 2003 Views: 267 | RE: interpreting "news" propaganda From the Dr Dio school of Deconstruction for Dummies. Re: the "human shield article" - I will comment since I had seen this one previously. First, I think 'human shields' are morons, so dense and idealistic they've just got to be ultra-religious zealots. I would speculate the article is a fake propaganda piece written by some neocon. Ultra religious fruitcakes do not simply 'change their minds' when confronted with reason and logic. This piece is from The Daily Telegraph is but one of the Rupert Murdoch-owned British dailies. While it's not unusual to find some interesting news articles in it on occasion, its "opinion" pages, unlike the Murdoch-owned Times of London, have never been filled with anything but those who dream of world conquest and slavery for Arab and Muslim (and Chinese and Korean and Russian and Serbian) blood. The author of this piece is obviously an educated man. I find it hard to believe that prior to going to Iraq and talking to "REAL LIVE IRAQIS" he: a) had no idea that Saddam Hussein wasn't Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm or was far from universally loved by his subjects. b) didn't realize that American propaganda has a great deal of reach and holds a great deal of appeal for people living under a tyrannical regime, who want to believe its "I feel your pain" and "we are here to liberate you" rhetoric and who, perhaps are ignorant of the actual outcomes of all American "interventions" since the time of Teddy Roosevelt -- including the CIA-backed and sponsored coup that brought Saddam to power in Iraq. If you think I'm being hyperbolic than I challenge you to name one nation that the U.S. government/military has actually "liberated" and "democratized." I've got the dunce cap ready for you if you're thinking about saying "Kuwait" or "Yugoslavia". The tip off here is when the author goes out of his way to describe himself as a "Jewish-American" when it shouldn't bear any relevance to the story at all. It comes off as the literary equivalent of flashing a badge -- we're supposed to take what he says more seriously afterward because his Jewishness is supposed to convey some sort of authority, or else cement his position as some sort of good guy. Oddly enough, I've yet to see Noam Chomsky or Naomi Klien (both Jews) flash the Star of David in any anti war articles - because they don't need to. The power of their words and penetrating insight is more than enough. You can fool most of the people most of the time, but you can fool me none of the time. And fool you guys all of the time, apparently. Thus endeth the lesson for today. |
| Posted By: Steve Posted On: Mar 27, 2003 Views: 264 | RE: Why I reluctantly support regime change in Iraq What lesson? That any and everything the U.S. has done, is doing, or will ever do sucks? Nothing you've said undermines the fact that Iraqis, by and large, hate Saddam Hussein and would like to see him overthrown. American propaganda got to them, huh? Is there ANY evil in the world the United States is not responsible for in your learned weltangschuung? I don't know what type of government Iraq will have afterward, but I doubt it will be one that murders people by the thousands. By the way, to deconstruct does not mean to refute. It has more to do with analyzing text with the idea that the author was subconsciously writing about or motivated by something other than what is seen on the surface. So what about you, Legion? You are obviously a very bright guy. Now I think Bush is pretty much a moron, that the United States has a terrible record of caring for the poor, sick, and elderly, that we unconscionably supported thugs for decades, etc., etc., etc. But then I also realize that the U.S. is not the source of all evil and has even done good in the world. What is the source of your enmity to everything American? |
| Posted By: legion Posted On: Mar 28, 2003 Views: 240 | RE: ah...yes, the old canard of anti Murkinism ...you forgot to include the charge of 'anti-Semitism'. I always enjoy that one. I don't discriminate though, I despise all religion equally, just in the same way I oppose stupidity wherever it might be found. Well, it's hard to say for sure exactly what is "good" and what is "evil" for a relativist, I generally avoid such pronouncements, so much of it throughout history has been clouded with obvious self-interest betraying the claimed altruism. But yah, even I would have to agree that such things as the liberation of the camps in WW2 were indeed an 'absolute good'. Things are seldom that simple. |
| Posted By: JSK Posted On: Mar 28, 2003 Views: 234 | RE: Why I reluctantly support regime change in Iraq Steve, Theres nothing you can say to Leege to get him to UNHATE the Americans. Although its a bunch of nations involved in this war you won't hear any bashing unless its on the behalf of the US. Whatever ..... he bores me and the rest of the warhaters,American haters do . No sense in talkin to them about it because they don't matter in this . Whats done is done ..... what needs to be done will be ! I did like Celluci's talk to the Canadian government on how useless they are on this whole issue . It makes you realize that people like Leege and his halfwit government will regret their words and lack of action . Its just in here Leege and some others feel safe and can make bashes at the United States just as we can to them. Child's play ! have a good weekend, JSK |