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TOPIC: HTML....what the H**?

Posted By: Kent Posted On: Feb 4, 2004 Views: 541	HTML....what the H**? My sproradic contributions to this board may not grant me the priviledge to go interrogative on you, but here I go anyway. I have on occasion wanted to participate in the HTML shenanigans around the ole' HQ, but I just don't know how. I've also toyed around with the idea of a website, but that's even more complicated. I did some basic HTML tutorials at HTMLgoodies.com, and now, I'm able to do really basic stuff if I go back and review the blasted scripts that I've forgotten...but certainly I can't do much besides make type a different color, make a link, or something like that. Now what I CAN do, and do pretty well, is use graphic design programs. I'm going to see if I can use MS Publisher to design a website, have it convert it to HTML and then put it on the web. I might try using Frontpage, but I'd have to fiddle with it as I've never used it. The question I have is: how do I get the thing on the web after I've designed it? AND, how do I load the pictures up to the host and get them to appear where I want them on the page? I've heard of FTP or something, but I'm very much in the dark about all of this. Many of you are tech savvy, but you are also quite snooty about your smarts and tend to put those through the ringer those who's grey matter you find wanting. Not that I give two hoots what you think of me or anything, but I'll go ahead and call myself a BIG GIRL'S BLOUSE to get that over with. There, how's that? If you'd rather point me the right way (a good site, or a good book for those who need help like me and don't really want to learn code but would rather let the computer convert it), I would be much in your debt as well. Here's hoping to Salma Hayek mixing it up with J Lo in 2004. Kent
Posted By: Dio Posted On: Feb 4, 2004 Views: 533	html or creating a website First a question... What is your highest priority? 1) To learn html? 2) To learn html via the creation of a website? 3) To create a website? i.e. Is html an essential knowledge for you, or would you prefer just to create a website? Cheers Dio
Posted By: Kent Posted On: Feb 4, 2004 Views: 530	RE: HTML....what the H**? Top priority is to create a site. BUT, I want to create a site of which I can control the entire look. I know that there are templates provided by various webhosts and such, and I can obviously do those...in fact I have. I learned a little bit of HTML, as I said, and I have used that to modify their code in a mild way, even though they probably don't like it when people do that. However, I would like to be able to create a site from scratch, having it look just the way I wish, and have the ability to put photos on it and maybe even downloadable files like music and vid clips. At this point I'm of the impression that you have to know at least some HTML to do this, even if there are programs that allow you to manipulate the look intuitively. If I had my druthers, I would rather be able to do it all on my desktop so I can see what it looks like and then just push a button and *bloop!* it would be on the web. NOW, that being said, I still wouldn't mind a little HTML just so I can be cool like all of you dudes and put funky stuff on this board. But that's a more minor and social consideration. There, you asked and simple question, and you got a complex and wandering answer. If you knew me personally, you would know that's kind of par for the course. Let me take a moment to wonder at the various interesting paths we all took to end up posting on this board. It's really kind of cool when you think of it. Who knows, if Jabroni hadn't done his little litigation we might not even be posting here this much today. I've gotten to the point where I must prefer hanging around with you dudes than posting on Barb's, though I still think it's a good site. Man, I can type tonight! I'm on far (that's southern for fire, Dio). Kent
Posted By: Dio Posted On: Feb 5, 2004 Views: 507	Creating websites Looks like you'll have to get a book on HTML if learning that specific form of creating a website is important to you. Personally, I'm avoiding learning any html for as long as I can as I know that I can achieve far more superior results immediately using professional wysiwyg web design products. DIHQ is not an example of such 'superior' websites. It takes absolutely no knowledge of creating HTML to create a website such as this. Now, more professional web designers know HTML, or more accurately, they know how to manipulate the code called HTML that makes up a website. But I assure you it'll take a long time before you make anything half decent utilising HTML alone, most of the skill is embedded in magpieing existing graphics/navbars/menus/logos/dividers/bullets/headings/backgrounds/butto ns made by other web designers. Realistically, for every 1 decent web designer who is proficient in HTML, there are 19 strugglers who have absolutely no clue on what works aesthetically on a web page. Now DIHQ is an example of a website that was designed with absolutely no knowledge of HTML, it's not brilliant, but it beats many glaringly ugly websites made by people using HTML. Now I'm interested in making another website soon, it won't be utilising the web design package I used for DIHQ, but a far more professional design tool that will make things look very good. Personally I can't be arsed to learn HTML and not see good results for years until I get good at utilising that specific type of code (remember, HTML is NOT a programming language). So I opt for the choice that produces the best end result, i.e. what people actually see on their monitor screens, whatever method I use to get there is irrelevant to me. But if you do stick with HTML, after a long time, there are advantages; you can refine the code and clean it up to make the loading quicker etc, plus many other things, but it will take a long time. Be prepared, there is as always a culture around people who know HTML, like those who are into Dungeons & Dragons, train spotters and Lord of The Rings, there is a pseudo elitism that surrounds it. But amusingly, this is usually aligned with a complete lack of aesthetic taste, composition skill, and actual original ideas on content; all three of the latter areas being far more important than mere HTML alone. Good luck moopy Dio p.s. if you want to know how to post photos on this message board and create links then you'll need to place the things you want us to see on your webspace first, then I can show you the simple HTML you need to utilise to make them appear... Personally I learnt/stole that html from Fluffy... see, the forest loon does have his uses at times.... bloody student!
Posted By: wiseguyly69 Posted On: Feb 5, 2004 Views: 504	train spotters? can you elaborate? I have seen/own the moveie Trainspotting, but that seemed to be about H-heads, and don't remember if there was a connection, ie is trainspotting taking drugs. Thanks, dear chap, Ta ta toodles wysiwisguy
Posted By: JSK Posted On: Feb 5, 2004 Views: 501	RE: HTML....what the H**? Dio you need to get high man . What are you talking about saying HTML isn't good programming language ? Its the basis of the internet and one which will always be used unlike some of this other garbage thats coming out . Java's only a few years old , asp's only about 4 years old . If anything I can't stand those programs and they are just as hard to learn !!! And if they were gone tomorrow noone would care . For someone such as U'r self (Dio) who just afew months back was sketchy about html I'd say you got the hang of it right ? Thats the good thing about html . Looks hard lots of times so many people fear it . I usually tell people its too difficult to learn just so they dont : ) But , I'll be honest with you guys . Kent ... html is not a difficult process to learn . Theres always the free programs and sites that run "dummy free" html , but at some point you may need to know it just incase you'r program/host can't help you with things . Frontpage is now basically standard on most servers . Meaning frontpage extentions are allowed to be used where is a couple years ago you had to find certain ones to support it. Theres so many damn "do it yourself" programs like "dreamweaver" ect . Pricey though . Frontpage is not only a good start , its used quite alot on many sites we all look at . Best thing to do is write up a little script using frontpage and then view the source codes . From there you may get the jist of things. Also , you can do this at any site. Just right click and choose "view source" . Look at how much coding is required for just one little page ! Don't get all scared ... most of it is all repeatative . I use to run sites with html-free hassle and found its much better once you know . Your on the computer so damn much do something besides checking out femfighting yahoo sites will ya ! (LOL) I never turned a computer on until about 5 years ago ... today I run a successful internet webdesign business : ) Go figure . Drop me a line and I'll be glad to help . Especially if its for the pics you have from U'r girly wrassling her friend ! JSK
Posted By: Kent Posted On: Feb 5, 2004 Views: 473	RE: HTML....what the H**? Thanks for the advice, everyone. I'm going to do some looking into Frontpage and get an idea how it works, then figure out how to get a site hosted. One more thing: when you design the page, can up embed the pictures into the design and upload them together, or do you send pictures and vid files as a separate item? Is that difficult to figure out as you are messing with Frontpage? Ok, must go, be out of town for two days...check in when I return. Kent
Posted By: JSK Posted On: Feb 5, 2004 Views: 453	RE: Why you dirty little ...... Dion , HTML by all means set the standard for everything you see . Programs run inside it , but to do this you need to code and you can program functions using html . That means its a language and unlike other languages or programs it's here to stay and will always be supported. You'll never see HTML 8.0 or any crap like that . While not every browser supports JAVA or fusion or Christ even CSS or C++ they do HTML ! HYPER TEXT MARKUP LANGUAGE !! Incase you didn't know what h.t.m.l. meant . The tool you use to upload your stuff including your entire message board is in html. You use an HTML editor . Thats a program in html !!! Sure its reconfigured , but all based around what you say isn't important U big/little dummy ? Blah !!!!!!!!! Why do I bother !?! (LOL) ATleast Harry has a clue .. this week : )- JSK
Posted By: Cleo Posted On: Feb 6, 2004 Views: 445	RE: HTML....what the H**? Bah, just freaking right click a site design you like, then grab the source code...take it and drop it into an html editor, add in your text to it, and your photos, then waaaaaalaaaaa~!!! Call yourself a webmaster! Oh wait, that is how jackasses do it..... To do it right (God forbid), yea some know how of html is needed. There are many html tutorial free sites out there that will give you the basics of html coding. Before sinking cash into an html editor, take what you learned and play around in note pad and save your work as an html file. Even get yourself some free web space to play with if you want, such as geocities or whatever to house your work whilst you learn. So now ya know the basics, so go get yourself an editor if ya want, there are many to choose from. I have all of them, and can't really say which is best, as each do certain things I like better. Frontpage is probably the most user friendly that I have. Or go waste your money on expensive programs you can get free on the net and classes on how to use them, all so you can do it the way I mentioned in the first paragraph. Seems to work for some, and I think the class is called html for loons 101. Anywho..you will find creating a basic site is quite simple to do, and making it all yourself can be quite gratifying seeing the final product when you finish. Have fun and if you have any questions or get stuck you know you can come here for help. Or drop me an e-mail and I can offer advice there too....however I rarely check my mail, just ask JSK lol. Hey I at least called ya dude hehehehe. Cleo
Posted By: Cleo Posted On: Feb 6, 2004 Views: 444	RE: HTML....what the H**? Ooops, forgot to answer some of your questions. Ok FTP, you can get many different FTP progs on the net for free. Go to download.com and grab one. You'll need some webspace for your work. You'll have to shop around for that or if your ISP offers you some free space, grab that. You will most likely want a domain name for your site such as JSKsmokesdope.com or whatever. Go to register.com or various other sites for that. Your webhost can then help you with the rest, such as setting up your ftp to load to your site, and pointing your domain name to their server. Actually most will do it for you. Ok bedtime for bonzo now, so I hope that helps. Cleo
Posted By: Harry Posted On: Feb 6, 2004 Views: 438	RE: HTML....what the H**? ATleast Harry has a clue .. this week : )- JSK Kent, I wouldn't recommend what Cleo suggested: "Bah, just freaking right click a site design you like, then grab the source code...take it and drop it into an html editor, add in your text to it, and your photos, then waaaaaalaaaaa~!!! Call yourself a webmaster! Oh wait, that is how jackasses do it....." Then you would have to erase the whole thing and type your own text and bring your own pictures anyway. Why to do some extra work? However it may be a good idea to hire a real webmaster (they are dime a dozen now), make him do all the work then act like a webmaster and get all the credit yourself-:) No, no...just kidding, what kind of a smartass would do anything like that?
Posted By: JSK Posted On: Feb 6, 2004 Views: 376	RE: bunch of bozo's Cleon buddy (LOL) I already have that domain taken , but you or anyone can buy it out from under me for a meazly 200 bucks .*American dollars only!!!* One last thing Kent. When doing HTML if it be either "by brains and no program" like I do it or by "html text editors" don't go trying to create the whole thing from start to finish and then see how it goes . No , instead U should really do it bit by bit . Theres really no "you should do it this way" unless your actually working for a company that uses a certain device/editor . As Cleo said go for the free space and learn from there .AOL ,yahoo geocities all have pleanty of space for first timers and its all basically dummy proof & you won't need to buy any FTP programs to upload them .They come with it . Harry you human butt cheek you ... Webmasters may be a dime a dozen , but good ones are not : )~ Actually what job isn't a dime a dozen in this day and age ? Mainly people hired webguys so they don't have to deal with that and other things more important to them . Plus , the inital confusing look to it all stops them dead in their tracks . Normal rate for webmasters run from 30-70 bucks an hour . I charge free-20 bucks for friends , 30-70 for business and companies . But , if this is for your enjoyment *as it should be* go the free route , look around and learn . Then if you ever need to "buy" a webmaster you'll know what to look for and see if they are full of BS . As Cleo and I said we'd be happy to help . Both for free although I won't speak for Cleo even though he has always helped me for free ... ofcourse one day I might open my home mail and find a friggin outragous bill from him ! Or he'll call you @ 12:30 on a school night or something like that : )~ Good luck and would love to see what U'r working on . JSK (from the old school of design)
Posted By: Harry Posted On: Feb 6, 2004 Views: 370	RE: HTML....what the H**? JSK...you bounder, you cad! (Do I sound like British?) JSK, this is just a hobby for me. I didn't charge a penny to Kristie, but of course she has to pay for domain name and hosting. The message I'm trying to send to Kent is "if I could do it anyone can!" LOL If I wanted to do it professionally I'd learn Java Script too. BTW, I've done a lot of schooling and working in the past, and decided to early retire last year, so anyone can call me any time, no problem. As to good and bad web designers; it's easy to tell the difference. If a web designer has to work at a second job to make ends meet, that tells me how good he is at it-(: I'm impressed with your web site, great work. Unfortunately I'm not into cartoon catfights though. Do you by any chance know Seaking? He seems to be a good web designer.
Posted By: JSK Posted On: Feb 6, 2004 Views: 367	RE: HTML....what the H**? Harry wrote- As to good and bad web designers; it's easy to tell the difference. If a web designer has to work at a second job to make ends meet, that tells me how good he is at it-(: -------------------- I understand what you mean , but that isn't the case at all . You wouldn't believe the e-mails I get asking if I'm hiring . Its kinda sad seeing the really good work people do , the years of experience & yet the lack of work in this job market . Its totally cut throat and I can't believe I've stayed in it to make a career out of it . Also , I know pleanty of people who are GREAT designers but need two jobs and not because they are not any better than others. Its because they own houses , car payments , medical of whatever else . Again I've managed to skip past all that and do work fulltime at what I do , but who knows what next week would bring ? So if I worked two jobs Harry would this mean I'm suddenly slipping ? I know Seaking through others and have spoken online to him a few times . Nice guy and a decent webby also . So thank you for telling me I'm a good webdesigner .I only wish there were not pricks out there or I'd be more than happy to send you out some other links of the stuff I've done . Truthfully , cartooncatfights is the most cheesiest looking site I've done (LOL) But , its the most worked on I must say and graphically & programmably genious ! What I don't like is how you always feel the need to say "You don't like cartooncatfights". Just say you don't like art U dummy ! Its makes me feel like its my site in general you don't like U BGB !!! And don't give me that smeal about you not charging Krissy a penny ! I'd bet she works it off wrassling U doesn't she ?!?!? LUCKY MF : )~ JSK
Posted By: JSK Posted On: Feb 6, 2004 Views: 364	RE: HTML....what the H**? And lastly !!!! Sorry DIHQ is on my fav's list (not to mention my site's links) so I do stop in alittle too much ..... I have to go against what Cleo said about register or any "big" name like them . Theres others out there that offer a domain name for as little as 8 bucks a year : ) A domain name is a domain name . It doesn't serve as anything else but that so why do these companies feel the need to charge 24-70 bucks a year for something anyone else can get for 8 bucks : ) Again its all about underbidding ! If you'd like the link/url I'd be more than happy to send it to you or paste here . Also those companies like register.com go against their own rules and try to suck those who didn't use them into using them. I've been sent letters to my home saying my domain's are going to expire and need to use them ? Its a lie and trickery and I actually told them if I ever recieved anything else from them it would be construded as bothersome and false . They use the info of who owns the domain names to get personal infomation . By law and by what they even state on their page noone is suppose to do that . You can look up info , but not use it for business or any other promotional use . ****head companies like them who rip you off on pricing anyways do this just to make more money . Vultures ! This isn't just for you to know its for others who may run into this problem . ALWAYS know who you use and keep it documented . I even do that . Ok, its the witching hour (midnight) and its time for lunch . JSK

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