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| Posted By: alfonsothefan Posted On: Feb 24, 2004 Views: 728 | Just Asking... I have been asked by several people if I'm going to see the film "The Passion of The Christ" produced by Mel Gibson. For several reasons, I will not. Now, I know the secularists will side with Andy Rooney, calling Gibson all kinds of names and that's o.k., but...but...why will you go or why will you not? The religious have told me that the story will re-kindle something within them or whatever. Several thoughts: I'm not going to watch it for the same reason I avoided 'Kill Bill', 'Nightmare on Elm Street', and 'Freddy Meets Jason' or whatever. Also, any war movie (have only seen like a couple of those). A question: Is it simply 'human nature' - a sort of vouyerism perhaps - that so many like to see blood and guts? The nature of the Passion is such that Grace, Love, Affection, Faith and Hope sprang where once only blood flowed; without persoanlizing this too much, that was my religious heritage. Hey, I'm not bashing Gibson; for the most part he is the closest any Hollywood type & the Fonz will ever get politically. But I see a lot of hyperbole involved, from Rooney's rantings to the NY Times crapola. Still, the dwelling on the crime and not the importance of the message from the messenger is disturbing. As is the constant showing of brutality and senseless blood-letting we see on tv and in cinema all the time. I believe the Passion will have a great effect on many people; my problem is a mis-guided and off-target and seemingly insatiable desire for blood throughout the world (and no, fluffy, it isn't simply an American phenomenon...this characteristic appears quite universal and...quite unsettling). Again: I'm maintaining consistency and won't see the Passion for the same reasons I avoided Silence of the Lambs and 'teen murder films.' Am I wrong in your mind? Right? Why??? Do you feel those who like to watch fem fights are more sensitive to this showing of brutality or less? I guess the flick will make many times what it took to make it. Now, is THAT unsettling or good in your view. Either yes or no: why? atf |
| Posted By: Rough Posted On: Feb 25, 2004 Views: 724 | Passion of the Christ I plan on seeing it at some point, although I'm hearing more and more criticism about the gore and violence. Gibson said he wanted it to be shocking and over the top and, like you, I generally don't care for excessively violent, bloody movies. In this film, I really think that any spiritual aspect can be overpowered by too much "shock and awe", for lack of a better term. You can just beat the thing to death (please, no pun intended). On the surface, it looks to be a little too heavy handed perhaps, much like a few of the "fire and brimstone" Baptist sermons that scared the hell out of me when I was a kid (Christians are real good at that)! I don't think "The Passion" will be as good as Scorsese's "Last Temptation of Christ"...a very creative, thought provoking film that was a little too deep for most of the narrowminded thinkers in my neck of the woods...many thought it was sacrilegious. I thought that film was brilliant, and it actually had me thinking about Jesus Christ more than I ever had in my life. Incidentally, I'm still very much up in the air about the whole Jesus thing. I know that he was a great revolutionary, and that his teachings, that we sort of take for granted now, were WAY ahead of their time. For that alone, he should be revered. But, was he "God"? I've always believed in the notion of one God, no doubt about that as far as I'm concerned, but I've admittedly had my qualms with this notion of Christ being God on earth. That's where the old Christian leap of faith comes in, isn't it? If anything, I think that the story of Jesus as God's son actually narrows the notion of God to a great degree, turning part of God's "story" into this kind of epic, mythological tale that we can somehow wrap our minds around. To me at least, the notion of God is of something that is, to a large degree, totally beyond our comprehension here in this life. I may catch "The Passion" this weekend but, as you probably know, I'm living in the damn buckle of the Bible belt, and this film sold out days ago! That's right, whole churches are buying up all the tickets. Now what strikes me as funny and, dare I say a tad bit hypocritical, is the fact that this is a very "R" rated movie. It's probably the first "R" rated film a lot of these devout Christians have seen...blood, gore, violence..AND a prostitute (it may be too much for some of the elder deacons). Needless to say, if some controversial, sexually explicit film were playing these same people would be out front protesting. But violence is okay in this case, because THIS horrible, gory, mindnumbing, violence teaches us all something and builds faith (at least in theory). I'll be going to see "Kill Bill 2" in April...because I love Tarantino and because the first one had a killer cliffhanger. Like I said earlier, I don't care for excessively violent, bloody films but I make an exception with a scant few...like Tarantino, because I do think that he's an artist and a visionary (although probably more so in his earlier films). Many of the fine church folks who go and see the bloodbath in "The Passion" are the same people who wouldn't be caught dead seeing a Tarantino flick. Assuming now that violence is violence, who's to say that, in the grand scheme of things, "Kill Bill" isn't as much an artistic expression as "The Passion"? |
| Posted By: wiseguyly69 Posted On: Feb 25, 2004 Views: 716 | I won't be going... course the last movie I saw in the theater was 'Spiderman' and the last movie I watched was 'Attack of the Clones' a year ago Xmas week. (I won't include the chickflick '2 Weeks Notice' I watched about a month and a half ago). I used to be Mr Movie, but about 5 years ago, I noticed that every movie I watched was disappointing. Bad scripts, embarassing plot twists, over paid actors led me to pretty much stop watching/caring. I am not surprised Gibson decided to devout a major portion of the film to the famous whipping and pilloring of our Man Christ. The scenes in 'Braveheart' were revolting; real, probably, but revolting nevertheless. I didn't see 'The Patriot', but reports indicate the same. I've never minded violence in films, in fact I'd rather see it stay on film than be in real life. I think when we see real violence reflecting real life, it makes us a little uneasy; that is, it's one thing to see startroopers blasting aliens or Robocop killing the bad guys than to see how Private Ryan and his friends are watching limbs get blown off. I can't answer ATF's question as to fans of 'la cosa nostra' (no, not the mob) are more sensitive to violence, cuz I don't know any femfight fans, openly, anyway. I do know that I would never want to see two ladies fighting with intent to injure. Rules catfight, oh yeah, wrestling, bring it on. But out and out fights to injure, just for my smile, I would never want to happen. As far as Jesus being God etc., I used to be a big believer. Now I just whisper that God doesn't exist, cuz, ya know, I wouldn't want to hurt his feelings. My wife still clings on, squawking to me that I can't eat meat today. So, to keep the peace, I'll have cheese pizza tonight with her and my li'l buddy, but for lunch, mmm, I'm thinking turkey... |
| Posted By: alfonsothefan Posted On: Feb 25, 2004 Views: 714 | RE: Just Asking... Well, thanks for starting this up with some really 'intimate' and interesting comments. Rough, though you & I disagree from time to time on politics, you and Wiseguy have once again caused me to think deeply about some of my reactions. Make no mistake: This film and the reactions to it will tell much about ourselves and much about our views on religion, violence, faith, rejection of faith and so forth. Also, I'm glad that we've left it to the "pundits" to dwell on the 'anti-Semitism'. That part I just don't get: Ah, JC himself was Jewish. Kinda like calling Black Muslims evil because 'they' killed Malcolm X in 1965. Well, some DID plot & some DID murder him. But to call ALL Black Muslims 'killers' is to forget Malcolm X was himself both Black and a Muslim! I don't and would never try to convert anyone. Hey, if you have faith (and I do) then that's great; if you have none, that is strictly YOUR business. It saddens me, it really does, when I hear legion and others tell of 'Christians' shutting down athiest chatrooms and such. Or hatred toward anyone, be they Arab, Jew, Black or whatever. Sad, in that what a "great" accomplishment: To be able to 'shut down' a message board or chatroom. Wow. Puts you in the same category as ... JABS LOL. Years ago a guy I knew thought he could slap me down for my military service. Said he: "I spent years trying to avoid them and I got outta that crap!" "Cool" said I..."Congrats, you won!" Somehow I feel he still shakes his head over that one. Seems he was taken aback with what 'might have been a 'backhanded compliment.' I guess it's just this: Be true to what you desire and be meek in what you accomplish; the former --your desire --is ALWAYS commendable, the latter --your accomplishments -- not necessarily so... atf |
| Posted By: Tangler100 Posted On: Feb 25, 2004 Views: 713 | Good points (and questions) here... Naaaaaaaahhh..., won't be seeing this torture-filled box office bravado on the big screen. Probably not even when it comes out on videocassette tape or DVD, nor even if it's shown on cable (unedited). There might be a possibility I'd see it on general network TV, because then it would probably be edited for graphic content, and I'd be more prone to concentrate on the theme minus the violence. I mean, like, how much b u l l s h i t bludgeoning, whipping, spear-throwing, and blood-gushing can you take, for Christ's sake (no offense!...no pun intended!). Sure, the violence is maybe part OF the theme, but that's not (at least from what the Churches are sayin') the MAIN theme. Whenever you portray history that is connected to a strong religious theme covered in blood, guts, and gore, (in this case) Jesus, were he alive today, would probably say to hell with all the blood, guts, and gore surrounding my death, and just DO WHAT I TOLD YOU TO DO DURING MY LIFE; namely, "Do Unto Others As You Would Have Others Do Unto You." The Fonz and I are on the same page on this one, and he's readin' right down the page like everybody should, IMHO. Rough has raised a damn good point. He deserves to go to the head of the class for today's lesson: I, too, have heavy doubts about Jesus being The Almighty on Earth. Just doesn't sit well with me. Yeah, I suppose Rough is right when he says that's what a leap of faith is all about, but putting faith in that concept really DOES reduce for me the concept of The Almighty. I mean, look, if you're going to rank Jesus as the Son of The Almighty, you're going to probably have to find some place in the "heavenly family" for a lot of other worthy individuals, too [like Noah, Abraham (he was called, I think, a "Patriarch", if my Sunday school lessons were correct), Moses, etc. These people ALL are prominently mentioned in the Bible LONG-BEFORE Jesus, and EACH had his OWN "divine" PURPOSE or MISSION to fulfill, just AS WORTHY in THAT individual's generation as Jesus' "mission" was in his generation. Point is: Probably none of them would really claim be part of a "Holy Duality or Trinity" with The Almighty Himself. They were all HUMAN, and, although certainly great and highly admirable, were NOT "co-equal" with The Almighty. Not trying to get off the track here, but the concept of gaining salvation through the blood of Jesus' "pre-ordained" (...i.e., came-as-predicted, lived-as-predicted, died-as-predicted) willing, self-sacrifice is too much for me to bear. I DO understand the concept, but wasn't that idea put to rest a LONG time ago when The Almighty FORBAD and PROHIBITED Abraham from sacrificing his son (I fogot his name...somebody help me OUT on this) when Abe tried to offer HIM as a sacrifice ???... Yeah, I KNOW there's big difference between what Abe was MEANT to sacrifice his son FOR, and what Jesus' claims HIS life was being sacrificed FOR, but, look, HUMAN sacrifice is HUMAN sacrifice, ain't it ???...And, despite all of Jesus' claims to be part of The Holy Trinity, even HE was human, too, right ???... I'll just try and follow to do what ALL of the Bible's heroes say to do while DOWN HERE on this Earth...and let the "life-in-the-hereafter", with or without the belief in Jesus, take care of itself. |
| Posted By: JSK Posted On: Feb 25, 2004 Views: 705 | RE: Just Asking... Heck yes I loved the ROAD WARRIOR !!! But seeing they just made a remake of DAWN OF THE DEAD I think I'll go see that . Ofcourse I have the original Dawn of the Dead and do have a bible so I guess I could save the money and just watch and read instead ? And spare people my rudeness in theaters !!! From what I hear Mel just takes whats written from the bible and displays it on film. He doesn't add anything to it so he says . Ofcourse if you actually spent the time and read the bible you'd know that the death of Christ went differently depending on which scriptor you were reading from . Like in the one from John (for example) its a crowd that yells "crucify him ! " then lets say Mark's writtings says its thousands yelling it . So who can you believe ? Its all man made . Some say they didn't even kill him instead casted him a way into the desert ? And if it were the Roman's that were the ones that wanted him dead then why are the jews the one's everyone points their fingers at ? If anything couldn't you blame everyone there ? Theres too much inconsistancy here and I think its funny/odd that when I now turn on the television its littered with Jesus unlike before !?!? Most shows on dateline or 20/20 now talk about him more and its all over the news . Thats good and fine , but because of a film ? Doesn't the holy bible speak enough for itself ? Now because a hollywood actor turned producer/director decides he's a born again and has the power to make a film for all to see HIS way you'll waste your time and money? I didn't see the Last Temptation of Christ , but heard all about it . In my youth as a catholic I recall the priest at my church blasting the entire project . Now you get the same thing . It makes such a stink people need to see it . These are the ones no better than those who stuck him on the cross ! -ok , thats alittle extreme- Plus, I heard Mel during some of his interviews about the film . He looks and sounds nuts ! Its most common people who have been through stressful and painful times in their lives turn to the good book & Jesus. Alcohol, drugs , family break ups or some time in their lives when they are weak . Mel went through those times in the early 90's and was soon BORN AGAIN ! Nothing like the late 80's Black Sabbath album : ) I have nothing against born agains and if it helps them GREAT , but all this man is doing is supporting his hobby/beliefs and sharing it to the world and some really could care less . So I'm saving my bucks even though it seems hard to resist . I can't say I believe in ONE GOD or that my God or you'r God is the man . Something put us on this earth , but I can't say whom . So I'll just go on to say theres a higher power and creator . Thats good enough for me and I'd actually hate to make the mistake and worship the wrong dude ! I also don't need a film to change or alter my views . Especially from Mel Gibson . If you wanna see death go see Dawn of the Dead 2004. I'll save you all a seat . JSK |
| Posted By: BigChris Posted On: Feb 25, 2004 Views: 700 | RE: Just Asking... JSK, Dawn of the Dead is going to blow you away if the trailer is anything to go by. Scared me witless (before anyone jumps in, yes it wasnt that hard). Will I watch the Passion. Well we have to wait for Easter before we get the chance in the UK (nice timing Mel), and yes I think I will watch it. Considering the crap Ive had to sit through recently, it should hopefully provoke some interesting discussions, as seen on here. Also due its controversial subject matter I dont think we in this country will be able to escape from it. Considering on the day a policeman was filmed kicking a man handcuffed on the ground, the Daily Mails front page was more concerned about the latest crap film on at our cinema. Theyre going to have a field day with The Passion. Also todays generation is less concerned with religion, and will probably see the film due to the outcry/hype rather than the subject matter. |
| Posted By: JSK Posted On: Feb 25, 2004 Views: 686 | RE: Hey Big Chris Yeah , if anything it may give the kiddies an idea about something besides Brittney Spears and Naspter . The problem is at who's expense ? Will it involk anger towards certain nationalities or give a wrong outlook at religion and how it was seen by those who really wrote it ? Forget the whole meaning behind it all and just focus on death and gore ? I dunno ... I simply won't watch it because its a Mel Gibson film . Would it be any better if Tom Cruise made a film about Scientology ? It has cheese written all over it and I don't buy it . Usually I slam doors on Jesus's freaks faces when they try and sell me **** and Mel's one of them .SLAM ! Go to it . Noones stopping ya and please tell me what you thought about it . I think its sick that Mel made a film about Jesus and his only backup was that of SHOCK Value ! Sounds like he should be talking about Marilyn Manson instead . Other than that he has no other real reason to do so . Unless of course its to make one belief look better than the next ? Who wants to see people getting nailed to a friggin cross ? Thankfully they didn't have camera's back in that day . But , Mel ... he's done so much already why not write a new bible & let people forever see it in his way !? Any kid who watches it and hasn't been schooled will now forever remember this film and fall back on it when talking about the almighty one ! Thanks Mel . And its bad enough war and hate is usually bread from religion. Don't be surprised if theres fights before and after this film because some idiots just can't handle it. Although I don't see the big deal it just aggrivates me that its being made to be one ?!?! If we wanna see shock its why we'd go see something like Dawn of the Dead . Which starts off with biblical meaning .... " in the final hours -or something like that- THE DEAD WILL RISE AND WALK AMONG US ! " Thats good enough for me ! I saw Dawn of the Dead back when it first came out. It was either that or Grease : ) My brother and I insisted we all saw D.O.T.D. that evening at the drive-ins . My parents were not aware how shocking and disgusting that film would be and how it would affect a little kids mind who watched it ...me ! : ) My brother basically turned his head and watched most of Grease only with Dawn of the Dead as the soundtrack . Back then you stuck the speaker inside your door window and it played unlike how they do it on radios now a days . Thats if you can even find a drive in! To this day my brother still has never watched that film in its entirety. I was about 7 or 8 years old and before that film the scariest thing I'd seen was something like Abott and Costello meets the warewolf ! Maybe we should have listened to the kid selling the tickets to us when he said - "Its a bit gory and really not for kids " But , My old man threw him the money and said "I know what my kids can handle . Its all fake and they know that " Nice move Dad ! Yeah we all know it was fake , but didn't mean it wouldn't scare the **** out of us ! Dawn of the Dead or Mel Gibson's bible story. I wonder which will have more gore in it ? Please tell me once you see it . Take care BC- JSK |
| Posted By: Rough Posted On: Feb 25, 2004 Views: 681 | RE: Just Asking... "The Dead Will Rise and Walk Among You"..that's actually the working title for "The Passion 2"... because you know if Mel's flick does huge at the box office, there will have to be a sequel! I still can't belive they didn't figure out a way to make "Titanic 2". I don't guess Mel and Danny Glover are going to do "Lethal Weapon XXV11" are they? Poor Danny..maybe Mel gave him a bit part in "The Passion". Ya think? Couldn't you just see that? Danny as a Roman soldier, dragging Jesus down to be crucified and muttering, "I'm gettin' too old for this s**t"! I'm probably going to hell for that one! A few more thoughts about the big JC and his story. It really has everything, from beginning to end and puts the notion of God into a neat package people can deal with...starting with a cute baby (who doesn't love cute babies)..and ending with the ultimate sacrifice. Insofar as the sacrifice goes, this is the basis for Christianity..and not so much the sacrifice in and of itself anymore, it's more about the inherent guilt trip that the real die hard Bible bangers try to lay on you. He did this for you..so you should give your life to him and believe that he is the son of God....and if you don't, this diety (who LOVES you) and preached about loving your enemies, will cast you into a lake of fire and neverending torment when he comes back...because HE IS COMING BACK..any day now! That's sort of the gist of it. And I'm probably REALLY going to hell for this one..but was the sacrifice all that it was cracked up to me? I know it was a horrible amount of physical pain involved but, generally speaking, it was a quick death. PLUS, the man only lived 33 years here on earth as a "human" with all the longings and shortcomings of the flesh. That's really not that long to suffer and scarifice as a human, especially when you consider that a lot of those Biblical guys, like Moses and Noah, lived for hundreds of years! I mean, if he were God, a 500 year life would be just the blink of an eye anyway, right? So 33 years here on earth, hanging with the commoners, is not that much. He could have lived several hundred years, gradually lost his mind, and died a very slow death. It's like he dropped in and said.."Ahh NO..that's enough of that" and then, boom, he was out of here. Ah well, just a few thoughts. Honestly, I would really like to believe that Jesus was the only begotten son of God...perhaps he was and perhaps some day I'll totally believe it. Aside from that, I still think Jesus was TOPS...right up there with Gandhi, Mother Teresa, and any of the best pope's and saints you want to thrown in there. He was kind of the first peacenik wasn't he? The first hippie...there, you see, God is a Democrat :) This is so cool that we can come here and literally talk about anything under the sun. I never got to address Fonz's comment about femme fighting in his initial post. For starters, God may just be a woman..so that immediately puts a whole new spin on it! Basically, I have no inherent guilt with watching two girls wrassle about and passionately lay into one another...don't think I'm gonna fry for it. My argument is, if femme fighting is so bad, why did God make it so damn sexy? Unless, of course...it IS the work of THE DEVIL! Maybe we can get a whole other thread going sometime...about sin, self inflicted punishment and guilt, hell, and the Devil. I have some thoughts about that as well, but......maybe later! DIO/ROUGH 2004 (Praise the Lord) |
| Posted By: Zip the Tiny Wonder Posted On: Feb 25, 2004 Views: 663 | Jesus Christ! I will NOT go to see this movie. I have not been to the movies since 1977's "Pete's Dragon"..that charming Disney picture (cried like a baby). I stopped going to the movies because I couldn't see a damn thing in front of me when I did go and because I would always get stuck to those sticky floors. Perhaps I will rent it from Blockbuster when it comes out. I have MANY video tapes...about 4,000 (and only half of them are porn). It's about damn time they did a movie about Jesus because he was a hell of a man! I wonder if they will "re create" that scene when Jesus turned the water into wine. Mel Gibson will probably try and update it for today's "hip crowd" and have Jesus turn the water into Pepsi! Mel Gibson gripes the hell out of me! I'm working on a book about Jesus' little brother, Jerry. He was a pitiful bastard...Jerry Christ. He had an AWFUL COMPLEX. Well, imagine having God Almighty as your big brother! Jesus would do all the swell miracles and all Jerry could do was juggle grapefruit. Jerry had a BAD drinking problem because there was SO MUCH wine around (that used to be water). Plus, Jerry had a receeding hairline and Jesus had a beautiful head of hair. My book will be about what's it like to be looked down upon and generally thought lesser of (I should know). I've been writing the book for about 17 years now (in my spare time) and should have it ready to peddle around to various publishers by about 2020 (Jerry lived a LONG time). So, the next time you are mad, do NOT take the Lord's name in vain. Use the name of his loser brother. Just say, "JERRY CHRIST!!" ZiP |
| Posted By: legion Posted On: Feb 25, 2004 Views: 657 | RE: Just Asking... good grief, a moron circle jerk. bah hah, stupid superstitious Yankees. Bible-thumping homophobic bigots praying and chanting gibberish over beads and rattles to their imaginary god. How ridiculous you are. Following some hogwash book of babble that was written when people thought the world was flat. Get over it. You got over your silly childish beliefs of Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. What's the deal with the god bit? |
| Posted By: Bear Posted On: Feb 25, 2004 Views: 654 | RE: Just Asking... You mean there's no such thing as Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy????? And you're not God???????? Jerry Christ!!!!!!!!!!! What am I to do? |
| Posted By: alfonsothefan Posted On: Feb 25, 2004 Views: 652 | RE: Just Asking... wb Bear, hehehe... Jerry Christ! LOL Anyway, wondered when Seymour Putz would show up. Glad you were there with the bitch slap. atf |
| Posted By: Harry Posted On: Feb 26, 2004 Views: 639 | RE: Just Asking... Atf. wrote: "Also, I'm glad that we've left it to the "pundits" to dwell on the 'anti-Semitism'. That part I just don't get: Ah, JC himself was Jewish." That's what exactly I and my g/f were saying last night. It's amazing that Jews never miss an opportunity for semitic propaganda. Almost any week you can see what Germans did to Jews in consantration camps on History and similar channels. What is that? Anti-Christian propaganda? I certainly don't like violence at all, but I don't have a major problem with violence in movies, after all it's all acting. I'll go see it with my girlfriend but I doubt we'll be able to find tickets for this week end. |
| Posted By: JSK Posted On: Feb 28, 2004 Views: 603 | RE: Leege You BGB it wasn't just American's that thought the world was flat you ... you ...!!! Infact , America wasn't even founded until after they found out the world was actually round ! And Yankee scum , bible worshipin , sling blade wanna-be's ?!?! Your mixing everything up . First southerners are very much American and you couldn't call them a yankee without getting punched in the face . Second most Jesus freaks are from the south not the north . The United States is made up of many religions and even though it causes problems here and there WE can worship safer than any other nation in the world . How bad is that? And Catholics are not only placed in the USA they are everywhere . And at this point I don't see the catholic community any harmful or evil than the friggin Muslums . I'm catholic (not by choice) but live with it . Besides Canadian and semi retarded where you do you stand in U'r beliefs ? Maybe there isn't ONE certain God , but you can be darn sure we didn't just some how show up here on earth. Theres a reason for our existance ... even u'rs . I expected more out of you from this subject. Hopefully its because your too busy with books and studying. Hows that goin ? JSK |
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