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TOPIC: Maj General Smedley Butler RIP

Posted By: legion Posted On: Apr 25, 2004 Views: 336	Maj General Smedley Butler RIP A speech given by Major General Smedley Butler(USMC), Retired, early in the 1930's. Recipient of the U.S. Congressional Medal of Honor twice, and should have received a third Medal of Honor, had not regulations in force at that earlier time precluded awarding the Medal of Honor to officers. listen up children while the nice man tells you the truth for a change: ========================================== "War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket. There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism. It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service."
Posted By: alfonsothefan Posted On: Apr 25, 2004 Views: 329	RE: Maj General Smedley Butler RIP Yes, yes, we know war is horrible. Tell me, though, what you think of the question broached by a Rabbi recently, when he himself asked "Why do the Muslim countries in the middle east not want the 'Passion of Christ' shown? Could it be that they are worried about conversion? Would the world be better off with 1 billion fewer Moslems and - conversely - 1 billion more Christians?" What the Rabbi is saying is what we should all be asking and it's a question you refuse to answer with clarity: Who is the aggressor and who allows all points of view and who is most culpable and who is innocent? Who started all of this evil warfare and why? Yes, the U.S. and the west shares some culpability but you reserve none for the forces who brought about 9/11, the first WTC Bombing, the murder of Sadat, the Cole bombing and the insidious child abuse/murderers who strap bombs on kids to blow up Israeli's and Palestinians. "War is hell" isn't merely a platitude it's a truism of the highest order. All the more reason to differentiate between blaming the victim and ignoring the victimizer, which you have been guilty of from time to time. You remind me of the old rasslin villains who would pull off every dirty trick in the book, then plead with the ref when caught with, er, their pants down. Then again, they were funny. This is all too serious. If you advocate stopping the war in Iraq and the hostilities in the West Bank I'm with you. If you want to stop the search for OBL and the killing of the Nazi-like al Qaeda, I'm agin ya. It's that simple. atf
Posted By: Tangler100 Posted On: Apr 25, 2004 Views: 316	Would Butler have gassed, passed, [or just ... ... ****ed ;-) ;-) ;-) ] on Germany and Italy back in '41 ??? [Brief interruption: Attn Harry--Finally had the chance to answer your query in the previous thread started by Fonz (about Tillman), about your (mis)perception of my so-called "hatred" towards Moslems; you need to go back and read it--Thanks, Tang] After all, neither nation attacked 'Murkinville, only Japan. I understand, given the historical background of Butler after only 12 to 15 years or so of himself coming out of WWI, along with the collapse of the 'Murkinville stock market that he lived through back in '29 (which, BTW, is given a lot of OVERemphasis as a reason why the 'Murkinville economy went into a nosedive), why Butler said what he did. Sad--but true--there WERE a LOT of 'Murkin loans, investments, etc., that were in Europe and Germany to aid them in reconstruction (nothing wrong with that--actually, that was very beneficial for reconstruction). Trouble is, the 'Murkin Money Manager Morons back then weren't able to keep their wits about them when everyone panicked in '29, and that panic soon leaped over the ocean with disastrous economic effects for Europe and Germany, as well. That's why the banks soon closed, businesses, farmers, and homes underwent foreclosure, and, like a pack of dominoes, everything went to hell in a cascading, chain reaction. Translation: If the stupid 'Murkins in the Gubbermint had kept a level head [e.g., IMMEDIATELY instituted Federal bank deposit insurrance; IMMEDIATELY extended Federally-insured home, business, and farm lines-of-credit; IMMEDIATELY sold Gubbermint bonds to the SOLVENT banks (of which there WERE many) to raise funds, etc.], the stupid 'Murkin depression COULD have been prevented, or been overcome a hell of a lot sooner, rather than waiting for the military spending of WWII to kick the economy back up. Yeah, there have been, are, and always will be the Military "finger men", "muscle men", "brain men", and "Big Boss money men" out there. That's why we have to have a damn strong free press to stay on top of those who would exploit the Military for their own ends. Ya' can't do a damn thing to rectify a wrong unless you at least know about it. If Butler had been President instead of Roosevelt and if he had persuaded the 'Murkinville Congress to refrain from going to war against Germany and Italy in '41 based on his arguements, there's a damn good chance we'd all have been wiped off the face of the earth in the mid-'40's by a German nuke. Just think of it, Herr Legionnaire, we 'Murkins would probably be livin' in German 'Murka and you'd probably be livin' in the New Dominion of Germany. Looks like the 'Murkins and Canadians back then missed the boat, (...er,...rather, make that the U-boat). (At any rate, I DO like German food; so at least keep that in mind.)
Posted By: Bear Posted On: Apr 25, 2004 Views: 302	RE: Maj General Smedley Butler RIP To add a little more historical light on the General's comments: After WWI the Nye Commission conducted investigations regarding the US's involvment into the War. Remember, that in WWI's aftermath the American public was incensed that the US had committed its all to win the War to End All Wars and the War to Make the World Safe for Democracy. But the US had been badly burned by our allies who took "their" victory to heart, patted us on the head, and continued on their merry way, securing a peace that virtually guaranteed WWII. The Nye Commission "found" that American and world wide bankers had a large hand not only in the commencement of hostilities but in the later US involvement. Most historians agree that the findings overstated the role of the bankers, but do concede that there was some substance to the accusation. As Abraham Lincoln said in 1862, "In war, some people get killed and some people make a killing." As for Legion: Shame on you! Your post regarding Pat Tillman was out of line. Whether you agree with the young man's committment or not, doesn't afford you, or anyone, the right to belittle it or his memory. Maybe you don't understand commitment; oh that's right, you're the guy who believes that marriage is an antiquated institution because you couldn't cut it with someone for more than 6 months. I'd bet that your work history isn't much different either. Keep up the informative posts regarding things you know about. When it comes to the subject of commitment; leave to those who know something about it.
Posted By: Harry Posted On: Apr 25, 2004 Views: 298	RE: Maj General Smedley Butler RIP 1-) Basically the reason for all wars is "national intersts" of a nation. 2-) To get people to go to war and kill other people you have to manipulate their nationalistic and/or religios feelings. I'm not sure if it's a big mistake that we are in Iraq. I'm positive, that step was taken after very precise calculations by the experts. I believe the long term results of Iraqi war will be in favor of our national interests. However, everything has its price...and the price is human lives. Tangler, I read your answer. It doesn't really matter whether you hate Muslims or not. Anyone can hate anyone/anything...the thing is though he/she is responsible for his/her actions resulting from that hatred. By the way, Suras are the chapters in Koran (supposedly) sent by God to Mohammed through Gabriel angel. It's just a propaganda that Koran tells Muslims to kill the Jews and Christians. In reality Jews were never treated any worse than they were treated in the Christian world throughout the history, in fact they were entirely forced to leave Spain in the 15th Century and no Christian country accepted them. The Ottoman Sultan (Ottoman sultans were also Caliphs=religios leader of all Muslim countries) welcomed them to Turkey, let them open their synagogues and practice their religion freely. Today all Jews in Turkey are decents of those Jews and still speak "Ladino" (which is 500 year old dialect of Spanish), they don't know Hebrew or Yiddish. During the WW II many Jews took refuge in Turkey as well. The problem between Palastine and Israel is not indeed a religios war. It is a war for LAND (national interests). The State of Israel was established as a Jewish homeland in 1948, on land that was at the time part of the British mandated territory of Palastine. Israelies want to secure their position and Palastinian's want them out of there. That's why the trouble never ends there.
Posted By: alfonsothefan Posted On: Apr 25, 2004 Views: 296	RE: Maj General Smedley Butler RIP Right on, Bear. Truth be told, my major problem on the "other bored" was that the mistress tended to agree with Legion on USA governmental cupability in the 9/11/01 attacks. Way out of line. See, I don't know if this guy really even believes half the crap he pumps out; my God, the men and women who made up the NVA attachement that overran the base I was at, the guy who fired the mortar round that came close to killing me and the various Viet Cong and others are, in a word, people I had/have great respect for. I'd like to think the guy who left me partially blind in one eye is not only alive but living a good life with a beautiful granddaughter, as am I. Perhaps this seems strange, I don't know. But I don't care. It's just that when one belittles the efforts of any soldier -- of any stripe -- well, it tends to tell me all I need to know about that individual. Tillman and his comrades ARE heroes and yes, the people they are fighting are also heroic, in a way, though misguided. Also like to thank Tangler and Harry for their contributions. Especially liked the info on the Turkish Jews and their language. Stuff like that makes me glad I come here and to other sites where one can read and learn. Which is, of course, what we should always be doing, anyway, right?! LOL atf
Posted By: Tangler100 Posted On: Apr 26, 2004 Views: 284	Ya' know, speaking of Viet Nam ... Appreciate the info on the Koran there, Harry. I think your stated two "national interest" reasons as to why nations go to war make good sense. Also agree with you when you say it's the actions that come from someone's hatreds that counts, because everyone has to bear responsibility for harboring those hatreds and the ensuing actions that follow. Still, since the root for anyone ACTING on those hatreds are the hatreds themselves, to me it still DOES initially matter if someone hates a particular group of people or not initially. Like, if you take away the hatred in the FIRST place, then you're not going to have the incentive for displaying offensive conduct thereafter. Now, although my pal Leege and I disagree more often than not, I hafta say at least Leege causes me to be more willing to CONSIDER differing views. There's obviously nothing to be gained by outright rejection of one's arguements without at least knowing what they are. That's why I DO understand Leege's motivations for posting about that 'Murkin Major General Butler. Until Herr Legionnaire posted that, I had never even HEARD of this 'Murkin Military Man. History has always shown the dire need to at least CONSIDER damn near all views. Then let the facts and developments speak for themselves. If you depend on only your "favorite" source, or what you "believe" to be the only "reliable" source of information, you're always gonna be subject to the inherent biases and slants of that particular source. Hell, we all know by now that Hitler's "Mein Kampf" was b u l l s h i t, but at least by reading it, you're at least able to KNOW what the motivations and reasons of this Nazi monster were, and how his actions were guided by his political megalomaniacal thinking and hatreds. Also hafta thank Bear for his stuff that helped better elaborate what the mood of 'Murkinville was back then. Somebody give him the key to the DIHQ Dept. of History. (Dio ???...Hey DIO !!!...WAKE UP !!!...Are you GETTIN' this ???) (BTW, Spence: THAT was a really good point about that son of a friend of yours. Why hell yes, I give ALL of our brave Military men and women the credit they so damn-well deserve. I just don't think that just because someone has name recognition (sports, celebrities, politics, whatever), and turned down the opportunity or temptation for a helluva golden, lucrative career, that he should be put on a higher "hero" pedestal for HIS sacrifice as compared to the sacrifices of all OTHERS. True, some people join the Military because they're not yet just sure what to do in life and they'd like to see what the Military can offer them--and that IS a very sensible reason for joining the Military--and some people join because they wanna use guns and hopefully see action. Others join for better self-discipline reasons, while others join because maybe they're down on their luck and maybe even have no other option at present. Now, it might make Tillman look more patriotic, or maybe more valiant, because here's someone who REJECTED such promising opportunities that were literally dropped in his lap, because he felt a higher calling to serve his Country, but that DOESN'T make him any more of a "hero" to me than anyone else over there.) Finally, to Fonz: I can never know the sacrifice you made over in 'Nam, but hafta give you and all other 'Nam Vets the praise you deserve forever for answering YOUR call to duty. That partially-blinded eye is a constant reminder, and I only hope you know the 'Nam Vets not only deserve the Country's Thanks but a continuous Apology for all the crap-attitude that all of you had to endure when you returned home. True, it was a big mistake; true, the Commies won; and true, hindsight is always 20-20, but the issue was your DEVOTION, and THAT is why you and the other 'Nam Vets will always have the Country's eternal recognition and gratitude.
Posted By: legion Posted On: Apr 26, 2004 Views: 268	RE: Maj General Smedley Butler RIP Right, like you knew the guy personally or something. You people and your stupid sport deities. I remember when some NASCAR jerk hit a wall and died and everybody was walking around moping at work like their favorite dog just died. I said hey, so what, whattayou expect when a bunch of redneck retards race around an oval track at 200 mph, golly gee whiz guess what once in a while somebody is going to hit the wall. Big surprise, whatta tragedy. Let's declare a day of mourning and a national holiday. Some farktard croaked himself due to his own stupidity. I nominate the big lug for the Darwin Award of the Year, coulda had a life of pro ball (games for adults) and pussy. What a marooooon! "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
Posted By: alfonsothefan Posted On: Apr 26, 2004 Views: 262	RE: Maj General Smedley Butler RIP Nascar & car racing. Geesh, I guess I also don't get it, since all you see are a buncha hopped up cars going around an oval track. Whoopee skip. Here's another: Rodeos. An old flick from the late 50's had a storyline wherein the "hero" was a 'clown' who hid in barrels from bucking broncos & bulls. Anyway, one day the guy was a little slow & got 'gored.' True to Hollywood, there was an elongated 'death scene.' My late father was watching it with me and his only comment was the dedcidedly non-Ebertesque "what an a*shole" the 'clown' was... Or, how about BOXING, our own FM and Hutchie (and this site LOL) aside, can there be anything more medieval and neanderthal than pounding one's opponents head until the brain cells are destroyed by way of the skull being pushed into the brain? There is a large difference between defending one's family & country and goofing off playing a "dangerous sport" btw. I mean, Jackass ain't no Tillman or Audie Murphy and that's a fact, Jack. atf
Posted By: Rough Posted On: Apr 26, 2004 Views: 257	YeeeeHAAAA! Yes, unfortunatley I live in the heart of NASCAR country. I'll never get it....don't want to get it. And NO....it's NOT a damn sport! I'm sorry. Take away the CAR and let's see what kind of "athletes" you're dealing with. Pro wrasslers are more athletic than these rubber burning rednecks. You know, there's that new BS voting demographic, "The NASCAR Dad"...I know, scary, isn't it? And here I am a childless dude who hates NASCAR! I never did fit in! But, that's cool. DIO/ROUGH 2004
Posted By: Tangler100 Posted On: Apr 26, 2004 Views: 249	Goering and NASCAR don't go together, but ... ... Farktard ??? (Hafta remember that one and add it to my prolific vocabulary.) Hey, I'm not much of a fan of NASCAR, but I do, on occasion, like to see the Indy 500, the Daytona 500, and the U.S. Grand Prix. Maybe not the entire damn race, but the beginning half-hour, and then the ending half-hour. Gets a bit boring in the middle. As far as Herr Goering goes, yeah, that farktard said it all. Problem is, what he said is applicable when you're dealing with a country with a national population of farktards, and, when the unemployment rate goes through the roof and the masses need bread, you can't run a democracy on empty stomachs. Then up steps a farktard man with a moustache wearing a brown shirt who bashes capitalism on the right and communism on the left, and spills out his prejudices on non-ethnic minorities as the "plotters" behind the economic collapse, and then tells his cadre of farktard military "finger men", farktard military "muscle men", and farktard military "brain men" to propagandize the farkard population. No wonder you get yourself a farktard country like Herr Goering says will result.
Posted By: Harry Posted On: Apr 26, 2004 Views: 245	RE: Maj General Smedley Butler RIP Good article Tangler. There have been number of Islamic Extremists and Imams in Turkey too who preached and tried to brainwash people into a Jihad. Turkish intelligence found out that these people were supported by Iran and they were planning to topple the Westernward Turkish government and establish an Islamic republic in Turkey like the one in Iran. Funny thing is 2 of the biggest leaders of these groups fled the Turkey...one settled in the U.S. and the other one in Germany. One in the U.S. is a billionaire and has number of schools around the world teaching his ideology. Despite numerous attempts of Turkish government the U.S. government is reluctant to hand him over to Turkey, lol! Same story with the one in Germany. Politics is a very crazy business, sometimes we never know what kind of deals are going on at those levels. The first time I heard about the word Jihad and Mujaheddin (warrior of jihad) was during Soviet vs Afghanistan war. Osama Bin Laden was trained by CIA and the ideology of Jihad was emposed on Afghanis by him, and of course without the U.S. back up there was no way they could resist Soviet armed forces. In other words it was perfectly allright for Muslims to kill Christians in the name of Jihad then, in fact we were helping them to kill more. After the collapse of Soviet Union, those mujaheddins were not needed by the U.S. anymore and were left alone to their fate (in a way they were jobless). They looked at the situation in the Middle East they thought the case between Israel and Palastine was unfair to Palastinians, and decided that The U.S. was being unfair by supporting Israel in that war. That's how they became the enemy. By the way, OBL is from a very wealthy Saudi family, last time I read he was worth $250 million, moreover his uncle owns the "Snapple" company in the U.S. and has a mantion in Beverly Hills (perhaps we shouldn't drink Snapple any more) When you think how proud we are of someone quiting his football career and go to war in Afghanistan, imagine how proud OBL's followers would be of him because he quit a luxurious life to fight "enemies of Islam", now lives in the caves of Afghanistan and put his life at stake. Perhaps that's why wars never end in the world.
Posted By: Tangler100 Posted On: Apr 26, 2004 Views: 239	The Big Merry-Go-Round. Big Thanks, Harry. Glad you gave me that scoop about the Jihadists who fled Turkey, with one of 'em gettin' into 'Murkinville (hell, that IS embarrassing) and our Gubbermint reluctant to hand him back over to Turkey (a NATO ally). Likewise for Germany. Of course, I say that based on absolutely no ulterior or inside knowledge that might make the situation different, but it's just sick knowing that a damn Jihadist is finding an oasis in the U.S.A. You say politics is crazy ??? You're damn right. Understand your explanation about how OBL and his band of merry men were ingrained about Jihad in Afghanistan while resisting the Soviets. Of course, I just wouldn't think of the Soviets as "Christians", but I can certainly understand why OBL and his merry men would. Likewise on how they started hating the Great 'Murkin Satan as far as the U.S.A. support of Israel goes. OBL probably also thinks the Saudi Arabians are just one step away from hell as well, based on his utter disgust for the U.S.A.--Saudi Arabian military cooperation ever since the '91 Gulf War and continuing till today. No doubt about OBL's family financial accomplishments. As I said in an earlier thread, most people who have been paying attention to him via the news media know his family financial background was built in massive construction projects in the Mid-East. Yeah, when you compare Tillman and his sacrificing of a promising lucrative opportunity for his higher calling to serve in the 'Murkin Military based on HIS ideals, with OBL sacrificing his comforts to support HIS ideals, you damn well wonder when the Big Merry-Go-Round is gonna end. The big dif to me is: What is just and righteous in this big world is NOT all just relative (as some situational ethicists might believe), and there is a way of separating good from evil. If that were false, the "devil" could quote Scripture or the Koran or whatever religious text you're talkin' about, to serve his purpose. (P.S., I personally don't believe in a religious or any other devil, I just use the word because of its familiarity in the aforementioned phrase.) Problem is, that sure as hell just can't be done.

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