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| Posted By: Johnny Yuma Posted On: May 27, 2004 Views: 328 | The SOUTH will rise again! Great article, yah more politics. This is too good, though, I just had to post it. I did not know this about the Murkin Civil War, which was a fascinating event. Why don't they make a movie about this? You know why? Because the WRONG SIDE won the Civil War, that's why. Hey, maybe that's why the Murkins are such a bunch of cruel, violent warmongers? Because the North won, and they won by using good old British terrorist tactics. Whaddaya know, huh? I also didn't know General Ulysses Grant was such a slimeball? Maybe Granny was right when she said the South will rise again at Appomaddox!? Anyway, check this out. Great stuff: To the Editor/ The New York Times: Your "Political Points" article in the 23 May Sunday New York Times, reports that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is reading Grant, the biography of the Civil War general, Ulysses S. Grant, as a morale booster. But if Rumsfeld is going to adopt Grant as a role model or source of inspiration, he (and you) should be aware that Grants policies and actions included the following: Ordering the expulsion on 24 hours notice of all Jews "as a class" from the territory under his control (General Order # 11, 17 December, 1862), and forbidding Jews to travel on trains (November, 1862); Ordering the destruction of an entire agricultural area to deny the enemy support (the Shenandoah Valley, 5 August, 1864). Leading the mass murder, a virtual genocide, of Native People, mainly helpless old men, women, and children in their villages, to make land available for the western railroads (the eradication of the Plains Indians, 186566). Overseeing the complete destruction of defenseless Southern cities, and conducting such warfare against unarmed women and children (e.g., the razing of Meridien, and other cities in Mississippi, spring, 1863). Contrast these well documented atrocities (and many others too numerous to list) with the gentlemanly policies and behavior of the Confederate forces. My ancestor Major Raphael Moses, General James Longstreets chief commissary officer, was forbidden by General Robert E. Lee from even entering private homes in their raids into the North, such as the famous incursion into Pennsylvania. Moses was forced to obtain his supplies from businesses and farms, and he always paid for what he requisitioned, albeit in Confederate tender. Moses always endured in good humor the harsh verbal abuse he received from the local women, who, he noted, always insisted on receiving in the end the exact amount owed. Moses and his Confederate colleagues never engaged in the type of warfare waged by the Union forces, who routinely burned, looted, and destroyed libraries, courthouses, churches, homes, and cities full of defenseless civilians, including my hometown of Atlanta. My ancestors may have lost the war, but they never lost their honor. Perhaps Rumsfeld should be reading the memoirs of General Lee or Major Moses, instead of the bio of a war criminal like General Grant. Sincerely yours, Lewis Regenstein Atlanta, Georgia May 27, 2004 |
| Posted By: legion Posted On: May 27, 2004 Views: 325 | RE: what aboot Eye Rack? Oh, this is really good stuff too. Who is this Harry Browne guy anyway? Send him up to Canada if you Murkins don't want to elect him. We could use a guy who can think like this: How Much Is Hussein's Departure Worth? by Harry Browne May 27, 2004 Despite all that's gone wrong with "Operation Iraqi Freedom" (such as the lack of freedom for Iraqis), we still hear over and over that "the world is a better place with Saddam Hussein gone." Is it really? Everything in life has a price even getting rid of Saddam Hussein. Any goal or result must be compared with the price to be paid in order to determine whether the goal is, or was, worth it. No goal can be said to be worth any price. In the case of Hussein, the price involves the tens of billions of dollars of our tax money that have been lavished on the task of driving one man from power and on cleaning up the mess that operation caused. Name your Price But, even more important, the price comes in the number of human lives that are snuffed out. So we must ask ourselves: How many human lives are a proper price to pay for the removal of Saddam Hussein? Would you say removing Hussein would be worth it if a million people Americans and Iraqis had to die to achieve it? If the answer is no, let's try a lower price. How about 100,000? If that's too many, how about 10,000 lives being snuffed out to remove one man from power? The Relevant Question Let's make is simpler. Rather than throwing numbers around, let's ask just one question: Would removing Hussein be worth it if the cost were just one human life but that life was yours? Would you be willing to die to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq? If the answer is no, then anything you have to say about the world being a better place now about collateral damage about the glory of soldiers sacrificing their lives for their country is meaningless. You're not willing to pay the price. You're like so many people who believe various government programs are wonderful provided someone else pays for them. Everyone who has died so far in Iraq had a life that meant as much to him as your life means to you. But now that life is gone, done, finished, nevermore. By supporting the war in Iraq, you have supported the idea that it's okay to kill people other people. But until you're willing to volunteer to be one of those killed, your words don't carry any weight. |
| Posted By: Rough Posted On: May 27, 2004 Views: 321 | RE: RE: RE: The SOUTH will rise again! Very good Leege! Yeah, chickenhawks can really talk the talk....our biggest one's in the Oval Office. And yes, Grant was horrible. Actually worse than Bushie...(probably). Bear will have to confirm. DIO/ROUGH 2004 |
| Posted By: alfonsothefan Posted On: May 27, 2004 Views: 317 | RE: The SOUTH will rise again! Wrong, JY. The South had Andersonville and numerous other 'prisons' wherein northern soldiers were denied the basic sanitary needs and many actually starved to death or died from starvation or dehydration (recommended you read 'Andersonville'). Actually, President Grant was a very bad president and you'll hear nothing resembling an argument there. But I gotta tell you: My great grand-father was captured in 1863 and tortured by confederates in Tennessee. He was 16. His cousin was hung (at age 15) by Quantrel's Raiders in Kentucky. A civil war is the worse type of war, no denial here. What this has to do with Bush today is beyond me, but hey...with all these America bashers here you are more than welcome to join in. Just remember: The economy is recovering nicely, no attacks from al-Qaeda in 3 years, Iraq is about to elect its leadership and we've prosecuted the war pretty well in Afghanistan. Still, I'm sure you'll be secure in knowing that there are more than a couple 'Yankee Haters' here...so...enjoy! atf |
| Posted By: Bear Posted On: May 27, 2004 Views: 312 | RE: The SOUTH will rise again! It is true that the behavior of the Confederates toward civilians was far better than that of the Union soldiers. Heck, it's true today. People in Dixie still have manners,something folks in the north, particularly in large cities have forgotten or never learned. I don't know if I'd call Grant a sleaseball, however. He fought to win and win he did. His performance as president was a total disaster, yet the American public elected him to two terms -- yikes! Actually, losing the Civil War is something that Southerners need to get over. Economically it was, in the long run, the best thing that could have happened to the South. Had the Confederate states won their independence the 20th Century would have passed them by. Their insistence on being 11 sovereign states would have made them vulnuerable to outside attack, impotent to expand westward, and their backward economy would have failed because there was no means and no willingness to promote efficiency and interstate trade. Also, those are the very reasons that the South lost the war. And if you want to talk about atrocities, well what do you call slavery? I mean it was practiced at a time when the world "knew better." My advice to every flag waving Confederate is read more (provided you can) and get over it. Didn't the Eagles write a song by that name? |
| Posted By: alfonsothefan Posted On: May 27, 2004 Views: 309 | RE: The Bear in Winter... ...er, springtime...never fails @ his history is quite on target. Also, little known 'fact': A full year before the Emancipation Proclaimation the CSA actually included in their 'Constitution' the prohibition of slavery. But, as we know, the years leading up to the Civil War and the South's terrible 'seperate but equal/Jim Crow Laws' kept African Americans as second class citizens for well over a century. "Get over it" is right! Geeze, like, the 'next' civil war is more likely to be between the liberals/secularists/elites Vs. conservatives/religious right/traditionalists. It may not be as bloody as the previous one but America seems to be shaping up about 45/45/10 if you know what I mean... North-South? Nope. More like Red State Vs Blue...knowwhatImean, Vern? atf, living in a red state |
| Posted By: Dionysus Posted On: May 28, 2004 Views: 303 | The South should have won the war? Oh yeah, good argument that, because the South had slavery, and the last thing we want is for an army to lose who fights for the rights of slave owners. Wait a minute... I'm a Nietzschean, I should be arguing for slavery.... Damn! And what did England do to help the North overthrow the Southern slave masters..... erm, stand back, wait and see who wins and then support that side.... fecking limey twats! Toodle pip Dio |
| Posted By: alfonsothefan Posted On: May 28, 2004 Views: 298 | RE: The Brits? Why, we love ya... ...anyways! Why, just yesterday I was listening to Pet Clark singing "Downtown" and dug out one of my Eric Clapton CD's & remembered why --next to Motown of course -- you folks are the greatest at keeping the Fonz entertained. Hey, the culture is great, the peeps are great, and just watch "Georgie Girl"! My gawd you guys are way too cool. If only you had an NBA team... atf, humming "you an always go...Downtown!" |
| Posted By: legion Posted On: May 28, 2004 Views: 291 | RE: The SOUTH will rise again! RIght, the genocide of the N American Indians was so much better than slavery. The Civil War was NOT about slavery. That much I know for fact. (in spite of current historical revisionism). I was just amazed to discover Grant was such an arsewipe. Aside from that quibble, I'm starting to come around to accepting Dios views on the Monarchy. All things considered, a benevolent Monarch is far better than what we have now under this pseudo democracy. The bad part is the possiblity that we get a not-so-benevolent absolute ruler like Saddam Hussein. Then what? Call up the Murkins to overthrow the bastard? Have a revolution every 4 years? I dunno. |
| Posted By: legion Posted On: May 28, 2004 Views: 288 | RE: logical fallacy Sorry to pick on you again Fonz, but you keep coming up with nonsense like "we haven't had a terrorist attack in 2 years" or whatever. Clinton had ZERO terrorist attacks on US soil for 8 years. Does that mean you are going to re elect him again? Guess not, huh? Just another one of Fonz's many logical fallacies that he thinks make sense with no rational connection. (if this then therefore that) post hoc ergo propter hoc (my off the cuff Latin translation might not be exact, but that's what it means) In other news, I just received an email spam from my DEAD GRANDMOTHER!! Some kind of ad for erection penis oil or something. Bypassed the spam filter because the sender's family name was correct. Spooky!! What a strange Internet we live in. |
| Posted By: Rough Posted On: May 28, 2004 Views: 284 | RE: The SOUTH will rise again! That is disturbing Leege...on several levels! Back to the Civil War (War Betwixt the States)...being a "Southern Gentleman" my own self, I've never understood this need to keep these Northern/Southern hostilities going. Can't we ALL get along?? (Sniff)! I suppose because it was such an especially nasty war (insofar as wars go) you still have these residual feelings carried over for nearly 150 years, now. I've always had this notion that the American Civil War profoundly changed this country but not so much in the obvious ways. The federal government stepped in to basically ensure that there would NEVER be another war of that nature in the US again. Our military gradually was built up, leading up to our "coming out party" in WW1, when the US truly became a global player. As with so many aspects of history, it's fascinating to think of the "what ifs", insofar as the Civil War. If the Southern States had broken away and formed the CSA, how history would have been totally different. The South would have been very weak and vulnerable, and I think that by the late 1800's, the CSA would have fallen under either British or French control. From there, it would have led to an inevitable war with the US and I'm not so sure the US would have won. In fact, I'm sure the US would have fallen under European control again. By gaining a foothold on the continent..by taking over a weakened, war ravaged South, the Brits could have probably swept into the US and taken back the old colonies! And today, chances are we would be part of Europe...with the US being but a mere footnote! Fonz's notion of a Democrat/Republican Civil War is a compelling thing to consider, but I think we'll always like the idea of a kind of Cold War better, with both sides endlessly deadlocked in stalemate. But who knows, you might just see a battle royale in the Senate one day! I recently heard about a large group of Conservative Christians who want to form their own sovereign state! Sheesh. Yeah, give them a little corner of Utah and let them have at it (but you had better ban the Kool Aid)! DIO/ROUGH 2004 |
| Posted By: Rough Posted On: May 28, 2004 Views: 282 | RE: US Grant What a patriotic name he had, too. True, he may have been an arse, but he did have some cool secret agents...Jim West and Artie Gordon! |
| Posted By: legion Posted On: May 28, 2004 Views: 268 | RE: The SOUTH will rise again! ...and let's not forget to honorably mention his buddy Tongue Tangled. "You never need an argument against the use of violence, you need an argument for it." Noam Chomsky |