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TOPIC: Fahrenhiet 9/11

Posted By: Rough Posted On: Jul 4, 2004 Views: 365	Fahrenhiet 9/11 Well, I finally saw "Fahrenheit 9/11" this evening and unlike some, who talk endlessly about a film they have never seen, I can give an honest assessment of my take on it. People here are friends and can respond if they want to. Everyone here knows how I feel about the Iraq War already, and I've decided I'm not going to get into any endless debates over this thing. I honestly think that Fonz especially should give it a chance. I saw the film with a Marine friend of mine who is a Gulf War veteran, and his wife. We all went into it feeling that the war in Iraq was optional and totally unecessary. Admitedly, my friend Tommy is not your typical Marine, but then there seems to be an ever growing number of freethinking military guys who can see right through chickenhawk Bush. Let me say, first of all this was a brilliant piece of editorial filmmaking. Even though it is obviously anti Bush, it was NOT as inherently heavyhanded as I thought it was going to be..as it COULD have been. That being said though, it basically reinforced what I've felt about Bush all along. Some have tried to be nit picky about inaccuracies in the finer points of the film. These finer points can be debated from now til the end of time. People are going to believe what they want to believe in Fantasyland, where governments never lie to their people and the rich and powerful neocons don't engage in corrupt activities to line their own filthy rich pockets. We're looking at the big picture here and the heart and soul of this film that is undeniable and telling. No fancy editing or possible smoke and mirrors from Michael Moore are the most damning. Bush and Co. basically indict themselves over and over again with their own flagrant words and deeds. There's Cheney and Rice in newsclips I had never seen before, saying point blank in late 2000 that Saddam Hussein's capabilities are no where near what they were before the start of the Gulf War and he is no longer a threat, even to his own neighbors. We see how the subversive political game of connect the dots blatantly sold the notion of a direct Al Queda/Iraq connection, starting right after Sept 11, with nothing more than words and NO hard proof. Bush and his cronies must have been surprised as hell that this war, preordained "unfinished business" by them even before 9/11, was SO easy to sell. Once their minds were made up and it was a "go", and the headgames of fear and coercion started, there was just no turning back, in a war against a country that had never attacked the US or killed a single American citizen. Fear, more than anything else is one hell of a tool and can prod a people to go along with just about anything, or give up just about anything. The horrors of war are brought to the screen...flashes of gore that don't linger long but are compelling and wrenching. Women and babies burned and mangled..American boys mutilated, disfigured and screaming. Moore doesn't dwell on the ugliness of war but the economy of the images he uses are effective as hell. All along, the anguished cries of old women in rags and the uneasiness etched on the faces of American soldiers leaves the indelible notion that the whole thing stinks to hight heaven (in more ways than one). WHY did this happen? What they hell are we doing here? Meantime...back home, the suits are already seeing $$$$ in the endlessly lucrative campaign to "Rebuild Iraq", that's right around the corner, just as soon as things over there "calm down". The answer to the question of WHY becomes clearer. The endless juxtapositions in this film are brilliant. But again, Moore was preaching to the choir in my case, and I'll make no bones about it. The film works on many level and is a cross section of many things too elaborate to get into in any great detail. The Saudi/Bush oil connections are interesting, but mostly just filling in gaps of stuff I already knew. Moore's cunning sense of humor is still intact this go around. Although I admit that his approach to commentary may be a bit too "cartoonish" at times, it's still effective and revealing. There's Moore on a loudspeaker reading the contents of the Patriot Act to Congress...a Bill, killing many civil liberties, that was slapped together and shoved through, with most in Congress having never even read the contents. In another segment, Moore approaches several Senators, seeing if their sons might be interested in signing up to serve in Iraq. Not surprisingly, he had no takers! Of the 500+ in the Senate, only one Senator's son is serving there. Maybe they aren't quite as "sold" on it as they make out to be, huh? I still don't know why the old Creedance song "Fortunate Son" wasn't playing underneath that segment...Moore is SO good at placing appropriate and ironic music in its proper place. Maybe John Fogerty's a Republican now and didn't give him permission! Moore has you emotionally invested throuhout the entire two hour odyssey... almost moved to tears at one moment and then cracking up at that hopelessly inebt George Dubya the next. Moore and Bush even cross paths briefly at one point in a funny little moment in time, caught on film. One amazing dramatic arc in the film is probably the most emotional. It involves a very proud and patriotic woman, whose son is serving in Iraq. Her story is a sort of undercurrent throughout the film. Like so many, she wanted to trust our government and believe in this implied notion of inherent wisdom and better judgement that almost certainly ensures the best interests of the American people. But the lose of her son and the slow, painful revelation of the lies and deceit that put us into Iraq in the first place changed her profoundly and you see that dramatic transformation on the screen. She is the embodiment of countless other relatives left behind..aching in their very soul and asking WHY. In the end, it's a sweeping, damning comdemnation of not only a government and upperclass that profits enormously from war, but also a complacent society all too willing at times to give up its desperate working class poor..to be led like sheep to kill and be killed, all in the name of the vaguest, abstract notions about "freedom' and "security". Just my thoughts....all from the heart and all put down while the film is still fresh in my mind. I think it's an important film. I think it's a "great" film. If nothing else, it gets people thinking, debating and engaged to a certain degree, no matter what they believe in their hearts gong into it. And that couldn't be a bad thing, especially in an otherwise banal summer movie season.
Posted By: Geordie George Posted On: Jul 4, 2004 Views: 349	RE: Fahrenhiet 9/11 I`d like to think this starts what I hoped would happen when everyone`s got cameras & things can`t be hidden so easily anymore (beginning with the modern-day martyr St. Rodney King). I`d LIKE to think that the smartest people just bought out of real participation in society when it became the age of lies, explaining why there`s no good music around & television & films & the media in general are such a repressive, retarded joke (like politics always has been). I`d like to think that it WOULD`NT take a meteor or some vast natural disaster to stop our swelling, de-evolving bleached whitebread society being so damned evil & stupid & become practical to some degree. I WOULD`NT like to read the critics of this review sticking up for the evil fools who`ve repressed them so ineptly (To the shame of us all)- I went through that on the internet movie database site recently & then watched a staggering television snow job (Richard & Judy getting a porcine Sun/Mirror journalist to savage a tame liberal on air) until I had to go upstairs and kick several shades of sh*t out of my drum kit (prrrrrretty rrrebellious, eh kids?....)....I`d like to stop thinking now. "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." ~ George Washington
Posted By: Harry Posted On: Jul 4, 2004 Views: 340	RE: Fahrenhiet 9/11 "Well, I finally saw "Fahrenheit 9/11" this evening and unlike some, who talk endlessly about a film they have never seen, I can give an honest assessment of my take on it. People here are friends and can respond if they want to. Everyone here knows how I feel about the Iraq War already, and I've decided I'm not going to get into any endless debates over this thing. I honestly think that Fonz especially should give it a chance. I saw the film with a Marine friend of mine who is a Gulf War veteran, and his wife. We all went into it feeling that the war in Iraq was optional and totally unecessary. Admitedly, my friend Tommy is not your typical Marine, but then there seems to be an ever growing number of freethinking military guys who can see right through chickenhawk Bush." Well, I have a friend who is a Lieutenant Colonel in the U.S.Air Force who's been to both Gulf Wars (I had lunch with him today)...and he feels exactly the same way as you, your Marine friend and I feel about Iraqi War. I give Bush Administration a lot of credit for finding a very smart way to brainwash lots of us (Americans) to believe that whoever supports the war in Iraq IS Patriotic and whoever doesn't... ISN'T.
Posted By: legion Posted On: Jul 5, 2004 Views: 329	RE: Fahrenhiet 9/11 Jeepers, that was quite the review. On the Daily Show Moore said the site 'MoveOn.org' has been organizing harassment of theatre owners to not show his film due. Yep, those are the values that made Murka great. Censorship and blind, unquestioning patriotism and conformity. Change the name from America to Stepford? 'Ask not what your Bush can do for you, ask instead what you can do for your Bush' - Barbara Bush
Posted By: Shandy Posted On: Jul 10, 2004 Views: 289	RE: Fahrenhiet 9/11 Rough - Your review of Fahrenheit 911 was superb. I share your sentiment concerning the issues of the War in Iraq, George Bush and the political subterfuge of the Bush Administration. Through his documentary, Michael Moore confirmed my suspicions regarding the depravity of our current leaders - particularly in connection to the events of September 11th. Many disturbing truths are exposed through news and media footage - including George Bush's sheer incompetence and cavalier attitude. Thought provoking, frustrating, shocking, frightening, heartbreaking and at times, even amusing - Fahrenheit 911 is a monumental film.
Posted By: Rough Posted On: Jul 10, 2004 Views: 285	RE: Fahrenheit 9/11 I'm actually going to see it again, sometime soon. You're so caught up in the emotional impact of it the first go round that you can't quite take it all in! My stepdad voted for Bush in 2000 but has been having his serious doubts, here lately. He told me the other day that he actually wants to see "Fahrenheit 9/11", which surprised the hell out of me! So, I'm going to take him to see it. DIO/ROUGH 2004
Posted By: Shandy Posted On: Jul 18, 2004 Views: 272	RE: Fahrenhiet 9/11 I agree completely - I am so used to being able to record everything on DVR and watching an episode of the Sopranos two or three times in order to catch every little detail. LOL. :) I have the best dad in the world - BUT he is one of those who refuses to see the film and believes the Republican propaganda that it is all "lies". Frustrating, because I think it would have a profound effect on the Political outlook of many who support "Baby Bush"! :p I'm hoping that my brother can convince him to see it!
Posted By: Rough Posted On: Jul 19, 2004 Views: 268	RE: Fahrenhiet 9/11 Most of the "former" Bush supporters I know have now finally wised up and are totally onto him....and it didn't even take any coaxing on my part! Hopefully he will be booted out, come November, but it's going to be mighty close! DIO/ROUGH 2004
Posted By: Rough Posted On: Jul 19, 2004 Views: 267	RE: Fahrenhiet 9/11 And it IS full of "lies"...from Bush and Company! Like I said in the review, one of the most revealing aspects of the film is news clips where Bush, Cheny, Rice, et al flagrantly contradict themselves over and over. People can bury their heads in the sand, remain in denial or believe whatever they want to believe..President Bush has got to have the most inherently corrupt administrations that's ever come down the pike.
Posted By: Harry Posted On: Jul 19, 2004 Views: 265	RE: Fahrenhiet 9/11 Most of the "former" Bush supporters I know have now finally wised up and are totally onto him....and it didn't even take any coaxing on my part! Hopefully he will be booted out, come November, but it's going to be mighty close! If half the U.S. and the rest of the world doesn't like Bush & Co. there must be a reason. Any reasonable man should be able to see that fact. Bush & Co just advised the American Olympic Athletes not to show overjoy while celebrating their victories by showing U.S. Flags etc., because they are fully aware of the rising Anti-Americanism in the world. I bet the spectators will boo and whistle when our national anthem is playing. The thing is there won't be any Al Qaeda or even Muslims among the spectators. It's a shame that Bush & Co brought America's prestige down to this level. I've been a registered voter over 16 years. Years ago when I filled out the form I was told I should mark one of the parties as my choice...and I chose Repablican at that time. However I've never voted in all these years...first of all I've never liked any of the candidates regardless of the party, secondly I didn't think it would make any difference in my life one way or the other. Although I'm not totally impressed with Kerry either...I still think he can't be as bad as Bush. Hopefully he will be able to restore the image of America and Americans in the world. Therefore I just filled out the voter's registration form, marked it as Democrat and mailed it last week.I will vote for Kerry in November. P.S. The attitude of Bush supporters on this board was a major deciding factor for my choice.
Posted By: Rough Posted On: Jul 19, 2004 Views: 263	RE: Fahrenhiet 9/11 I'm not that overly impressed with Kerry, either. But, given the choices it's plain to see who I'm voting for. I don't think Kerry will be weak on defense...and, just as importantly, I don't think he will unecessarily create new fronts in the War on Terror. We just need a new direction and hopefully a restored image throughout the globe but it's going to take a good while . It's got to start with the abondonment of empire building. DIO/ROUGH 2004
Posted By: Rough Posted On: Jul 19, 2004 Views: 257	RE: Fahrenheit 9/11 ABANDONMENT of empire building...seeing as how I don't want the point to be lost. DIO/ROUGH 2004
Posted By: Sandy Posted On: Aug 6, 2004 Views: 237	RE: Fahrenhiet 9/11 I am hopeful that Kerry will win. The general attitude seems to be "Anyone but Bush!" which pretty much sums up my feelings. I think that John Edwards was a wise choice as Kerry's running mate. He possesses the charisma that Kerry lacks. More important - he is from North Carolina, thus appealing to southerners, who may have otherwise voted for Bush.
Posted By: Rough Posted On: Aug 7, 2004 Views: 232	RE: Fahrenhiet 9/11 Edwards is a southern gentleman from North Carolina...just like yours truly! Sadly, I still think Bush will carry my state...I'm almost certain of it, in fact. This just blows my mind since no one can seem to tell me one single positive thing he's done. And anyone who thinks the economy is "turning the corner" should come down here to the Tar Heel State. I am in the Bible Belt, so Bush will get votes from misguided imbeciles who think he's a good Christian soldier. DIO/ROUGH 2004
Posted By: Shandy Posted On: Aug 20, 2004 Views: 225	RE: Fahrenhiet 9/11 That is a shame - I truly believed that Edwards had the support of his home state. I will absolutely choke if Bush wins this election, considering that he didn't actually "win" the first time.

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