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| Posted By: xeoncat Posted On: Nov 5, 2007 Views: 2084 | another topic about the covered psywheel experimen as an amateur parapsychologist I have to be up to date with hoaxes and stage tricks. Macro-PK is very rare and very few serious documentation about it exists. the psyhweel always got my attention and (surprise) I find Keith's heated air theory plausible (I never got convinced by the static energy, breathe and/or wind theories), but I have a few questions about your covered psyhweel: 1. how did you got to the result that difference of 20F (I use metric, I guess that's 6Cº, correct me if I'm wrong) is needed to spin the wheel. What thermometers did you use and where did you put them? 2. How do hands generate heat similar to 6 mugs of boiling water? 3. how do you explain that the cover can mantain that temperature unbalance during 2 minutes, even without hands? I guess the cover isn't a greenhouse and heat dissipates fast. the only counter argument I have is that you cannot prove it is not you or your wife or anyone else moving the wheel. You could be in a spaceship near the moon while rotating that psyhweel on earth. it cannot be proven or disproven with what we know about psychokinetic phenomenons. aside from that, it's cool and thanks in advance for the attention to this post. cheers |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Nov 5, 2007 Views: 2077 | RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen 1) Not difficult. I used a very accurate thermometer designed to test the temperature of developers for film developing. I left it to measure the ambient air temperature then held it in my hands to measure their temperature. 2)I never said that the hands generate the same heat as 6 mugs of boiling water. It was simply to demonstrate that all that was needed was heat. 3)I never carried out any tests with the wheel covered, so fail to understand this question 4)You say I cannot prove it wasn't me moving the wheel. Read the article again. |
| Posted By: xeoncat Posted On: Nov 5, 2007 Views: 2072 | RE: RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen 1) oooh, very good. 2) ok, my misunderstand. 3) my misunderstand too, that strangely covered wheel was not your video and seems suspect. but the question is still on. you claim that the covered wheel will move due to heated air, alone or with hands. I still think it is impossible that there could be an unbalance of 6Cº in the temp of the air without any interference. and I find very difficult to provoke it only with the hands. heat will dissipate fast through the cover and through the air outside, unless the cover is specially designed to retain heat inside. I will try to test this myself (I guess I'll need to shop for some new thermometers, lol) 4) anyone could influence the psywheel if it would be by psychokinesis. being in the next room actually means nothing (in lab conditions, some experiments are made double blinded and thirty meters apart and even with that, skeptics still point their fingers). having some other person change the mugs tells nothing about your or their abilities. I am inclined to say that your argument is probably true, but I really don't know for sure. sorry for my skeptical point of view (hehe) |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Nov 5, 2007 Views: 2070 | RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen "but the question is still on. you claim that the covered wheel will move due to heated air, alone or with hands." As I have already previously said, I make no reference at all to any covered psi wheel test. I have no idea why you keep refering to it! "I still think it is impossible that there could be an unbalance of 6Cº in the temp of the air without any interference." Again I have no idea what your problem is. Why do you have a problem with a room air temperature of 70F (20C) and a hand temperature of 90F (34C)? What is so unusual about that? |
| Posted By: xeoncat Posted On: Nov 5, 2007 Views: 2068 | RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen "As I have already previously said, I make no reference at all to any covered psi wheel test. I have no idea why you keep refering to it!" strange, I see a video there. the first on the page of the covered psywheel test. the subtitle says: "This is just me messing about. Looks pretty convincing though doesn't it? TK at a distance under cover!" =/ I'm tired and old... but not that much, lol. |
| Posted By: xeoncat Posted On: Nov 6, 2007 Views: 2061 | RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen on the uncovered wheel: no air around a hand can maintain 26Cº let alone near 30Cº with an ambient of 20Cº and you have to produce that heat continuouly to make the wheel spin steadily at constant speed during 2 minutes. plus the convection should be moving so focused that it can cause steady motion on the wheel... well, unless the convections we are talking about are caused by psychokinesis or the process of making the wheel spin is completely diferent. you tried with 6 mugs, have you tried with one? on one side only? do you think a hand can generate heat similar to a single mug of boiling water? does that mug cause enough convection to spin the wheel steadily at constant speed? I'm presently discarding the accounts of people who say who can do it without hands, which may or may not be true. on the covered wheel: what do you have to say about this? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFcahzu4E5A&watch_response thanks for your concern. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Nov 6, 2007 Views: 2056 | RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen "I see a video there. the first on the page of the covered psywheel test. the subtitle says: "This is just me messing about. Looks pretty convincing though doesn't it?" I do not wish to be rude but do you have a problem understanding the English language? The video is indeed fake as described, me messing about and faking it. So why discuss it as though I have carried out some sort of test on the covered psi wheel or attempted to explain the process of how it works? Makes no sense. "on the uncovered wheel: no air around a hand can maintain 26Cº let alone near 30Cº with an ambient of 20Cº and you have to produce that heat continuouly to make the wheel spin steadily at constant speed during 2 minutes. plus the convection should be moving so focused that it can cause steady motion on the wheel" Again you make no sense. All I have said is that my hands were at their normal temperature of 34C and the air temperature at a normal 20C. What is wrong with that? It takes no effort on my part for my body to remain at its normal operating temperature. With that difference in temperature it creates a rising air current (heat rises) around the psi wheel and the incoming air rotates the psi wheel. I proved this by using the hot mugs instead of my hands as they also created a warm updraft. I just don't see why you have such a problem with it. I have tried the experiment with less mugs but it is harder to make it spin. It is not necesary to generate as much heat as the mugs, that is why I show a video of rotating the wheel with my hands. You really aren't following this at all are you? I watched the video on YouTube and that confirms what I am saying. Heat is what makes the uncovered psi wheel spin. What is your point in referring to it? |
| Posted By: cj Posted On: Nov 6, 2007 Views: 2049 | RE: RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen keith do you think air current is strong enuff to do what i did in that vid what ever it was im sure there s a logical explanation but somtimes it rele seems as if theres a little influence |
| Posted By: cj Posted On: Nov 6, 2007 Views: 2048 | RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen i dont believe its tk im not convinced tk exist and i have had some strange experiaces of books falling ,cds 2 there stacked tightly i just shrug it away as natural and dont speculate what the cause was |
| Posted By: xeoncat Posted On: Nov 6, 2007 Views: 2045 | RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen your article is confusing then. I have no problem understanding english, even if is not my first language. quoting: "Because it does not exist ( My opinion only again, not a fact) nobody can move a psi wheel under cover by TK. (Just my opinion again). When it does move, it is just rising air currents moving it, and is no different to my demonstration with using six mugs of hot water." this phrase is very misleading. so what you want to say is that all covered psywheels moving are fake. "How many of you have actually seen someone demonstrate TK the same as shown in my video? Right, No one!" I have seen and better than yours. I give the benefit of the doubt to all of them, of course. Still on the theme of that last quote, there is just this last thing I want to say. There is the concept among skeptics that if they can reproduce the effect by fake, then the original feat is most likely fake. this is a severe fallacy of logic and should be avoided at all costs. Ironically Mr. Randi did it many times and recieved applauses for it. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Nov 6, 2007 Views: 2041 | RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen "this phrase is very misleading. so what you want to say is that all covered psywheels moving are fake." All so called TK demonstrations are fake as there no such thing as TK. If TK existed then it would be very easy to prove it. |
| Posted By: xeoncat Posted On: Nov 6, 2007 Views: 2035 | RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen " If TK existed then it would be very easy to prove it." logical fallacy. you are saying that you know how PK would function if it existed. [rant] it would be SOOOO easy, you just think move and it moves. and macroscopic big things for everybody to see, oh and also when you want. there would be no spontaneous happenings if PK would exist, all objects would be well controlled by your mind and could be unmistankingly captured in video (which actually is, by my definition). move things, melt objects, levitate, tune the porn channels in tv, you name your preferred superpowers. Obviously you wouldn't need statistics or Random Number Generators, that's for the weak minded. no one saves damself in distress affecting RNGs. it would be so easy wouldn't it? [end of rant] |
| Posted By: cj Posted On: Nov 6, 2007 Views: 2033 | RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen no not even close bud the results they recieve are somtimes the chances of one in a million these people know what there doin there is a statisically small but consistent signifigant effect dont you pay attention |
| Posted By: xeoncat Posted On: Nov 7, 2007 Views: 2022 | RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen cj, I don't know if you noticed, but I was being ironic, hehe. and yes, RNG's can be continuouly affected and there are significant statistics about the results. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Nov 7, 2007 Views: 2016 | RE: another topic about the covered psywheel experimen Ok, I give up. "" If TK existed then it would be very easy to prove it." logical fallacy. you are saying that you know how PK would function if it existed." Why do you insist on saying that in order to demonstrate TK it would be necessary to explain how it worked? A demonstration is a demonstration! And yes, it should be VERY easy to demonstrate. Just look at how many videos there are on YouTube alone of 'TK'. So they can do it to order when the camera is running, spinning a psi wheel this way and that, levitating pencils, moving a bunch of keys, you name it. Never mind, I give up with you. You clearly do not possess the wit to understand what I am saying to you. You distort things, completely misunderstand even the simplest statement, make totally wrong statements about what I say and obviously do not have the slightest understanding of what you read. I will not waste any more of my time on you, you are a moron. Stick with cj, he is operating on the same level as you. |
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