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| Posted By: JP Posted On: Jan 9, 2007 Views: 665 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents I viewed the video and yes I have to admit that it does look like glass. Which brings me to my next point, what kind of "surface" is the foil wheel on? It could be easily being passed underneath the glass through the surface to the foil wheel (if you notice it works best when his other finger(s) is touching the surface, but this could just be a wrong observation. This probably only works with foil wheels too (makes an easier path for the electricity to follow through the surface to the foil, because the foil is probably acting like a lightening rod so to speak); but this is just a thought. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jan 11, 2007 Views: 656 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents I don't know what the surface is although it looks like either wood or a 'wood effect' desk top. I also think its a glass cover, which is a problem. Even if it is static how does it follow his finger through the glass, regardless of what it is standing on? It's got me stumped! |
| Posted By: stevo Posted On: Jan 12, 2007 Views: 651 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents static electriticity does "pass through" glass, or plastic, or styrofoam, or most other insulators. static is simply an unbalance of electrons on a surface, so if a charged surface is brought near a piece of glass, the glass will loose/gain electrons to share the charge with the other object and thus gain a net charge itself. the electron imbalance creats an electric field, and that is what makes stuff move due to static electricity. for instance, a good demonstration of this is a large pipecleaner (or 3 to 4 ft long piece of metal wire)which is resting on a table. if you are touching a vandegraff generator(or other static producing device), you can easily slide the pipecleaner across the table from up to a foot away. granted, you are charged to nearly 400,000 volts when doing so. you can also affect a psiwheel from 2 to 3 feet away while in contact with such a generator. i have tested a psiwheel under glass while in contact with an electrostatic generator, and yes, it does certainly move. not to the speed that it appears to in some of the online videos while under cover, and you must remember that it is very unrealistic to be charged to 400,000 volts on a normal basis, but bottom line is: yes, a psiwheel can be moved through glass by static. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jan 13, 2007 Views: 650 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents That's very interesting and I will have to take your word for it as I do not have access to such a machine. I did read somewhere that a normal static spark that jumps from your finger is often in the region of 30,000 volts so presumably it is enough to move a psi wheel under glass? Maybe I am just not getting a big enough static charge, the conditions here are dead against it, its rained every day for a month and the atmosphere, as you can imagine, is very damp. |
| Posted By: stevo Posted On: Jan 13, 2007 Views: 646 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents yeah, the breakdown voltage of dry air (the voltage at which it sparks) is about 30,000 volts per inch. so a standard shock to a doorknob is like 15-30kV. a good way to try and spin a psiwheel with static is to run a comb through your hair alot and bring the comb towards it. the density of the charge on that comb makes up for there being "only" 30,000ish volts on it :-) that said, the best way to rule out static electricity is NOT to cover the psiwheel in a glass, but in a faraday cage. a faraday cage is nothing more than a piece of wire mesh that surrounds the area the psiwheel is in completely, and is connected to some sort of ground. a piece of windoscreen shaped like a dome and taped to a large sheet of aluminum foil on the talbe works fine, and will let no external electromagnetic fields pass through. if it spins in there, it is not due to any electric influence |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jan 14, 2007 Views: 644 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents Now that sounds like a good idea, the Faraday cage, it should be tried. If I could find the materials I would give it a go. However, I don't really feel the need to test it because you are right in what you say, the charge wouldn't get through. |
| Posted By: stevo Posted On: Jan 14, 2007 Views: 640 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents the best way to set up a psiwheel for accurate testing would be to have a glass cup sprayed with a metallic coating (like the extremely think layers of metal sprayed onto materials to make them conductive). that way both air currents and electrostatic effects are eliminated. |
| Posted By: JP Posted On: Jan 15, 2007 Views: 638 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents stevo, You are mistaken in saying that "standard" static electricity can pass through glass. That is completely incorrect. It's an insulator, and without a high amount of voltage, it's not going to happen (with glass); some insulators even WITH that high amount of voltage still don't let the electrical current pass through it at all. |
| Posted By: stevo Posted On: Jan 15, 2007 Views: 635 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents have you ever seen the static demonstration in which a glass rod is rubbed with animal fur, and then small pieces of paper are lifted up as a result? try the same thing with a glass sheet, if it is charged on the top side and held over a bunch of small paper pieces (or a mixture of paper), they will still rise up in my work with electrostatics, i have been experimenting with certaing types of electrostatic capacitors. for safety, i opperate these capacitos (about 5 inches square) enclosed within a 20gallon fishtank (20 by 10 by 10 inches). the device itself never touches the glass enclosure, nor does the high voltage wiring. however, if the glass case is not grounded with a metal probe after the experiment, when one touches the glass they receive a rather substantial static shock from the outside of the enclosure. |
| Posted By: JP Posted On: Jan 15, 2007 Views: 632 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents stevo, I do understand where you are coming from, but the glass rod rubbed with fur or silk doesn't show that static electricity can pass through it. The charged electrons simply rest on top of the glass surface. No wonder why paper would float above the surface, or flowing water (out of a faucet), would move away from the glass rod. The glass rod isn't charged, the electrons are simply resting on top glass rod surface, but they are not penetrating the actual rod. Although, with enough voltage, yes you could pass electricity through glass (which I have stated in my previous post(s)). |
| Posted By: JP Posted On: Jan 15, 2007 Views: 631 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents Sorry, I got caught up with some work and couldn't finish responding to your post, stevo. :quote: in my work with electrostatics, i have been experimenting with certaing types of electrostatic capacitors. for safety, i opperate these capacitos (about 5 inches square) enclosed within a 20gallon fishtank (20 by 10 by 10 inches). the device itself never touches the glass enclosure, nor does the high voltage wiring. however, if the glass case is not grounded with a metal probe after the experiment, when one touches the glass they receive a rather substantial static shock from the outside of the enclosure. :endquote: Interesting, must be enough voltage to carry through the glass. How much electricity is being generated from the capacitors? and actually, does the water cause the electrical charge being generated to intensify? (that's just a personal question, that came to mind when I read what you wrote). |
| Posted By: Woodpecker Posted On: Jan 16, 2007 Views: 627 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents I know this is a stupid question, but if the wheel is totally surrounded by a Faraday cage, how will you know if it's turning? |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jan 16, 2007 Views: 626 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents Because a Faraday cage is just a mesh cage, like you would put a pet in, so you are able to see through it. |
| Posted By: stevo Posted On: Jan 16, 2007 Views: 623 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents sorry about the description of my experimental setup, i did not clarify it very well. the fishtank is full of air, and it is only there to prevent accidental encounter with the capacitor itself. the voltage used is 24kV, which is around the electricity in an average 3/4" long static shock from your finger to a doorknob or such. of course, in my experiment this voltage is sustained for a couple of seconds, not the very short time which is encountered in a discharge, but i was just using it as an example of how relatively low voltage can "pass through" so to speak, a piece of glass. |
| Posted By: JP Posted On: Jan 17, 2007 Views: 620 | RE: Exploring Convection Currents Ok, thank you for the clarification, stevo. Hrm....well I think I'm back to square one on this then...I'm not sure what to think now, haha. |
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