| THEORIES WITH PROBLEMS - IS INFINITY REAL? -> No infinities | Start A New Topic | Reply |
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| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 29, 2002 Views: 3201 | No infinities I could go on for ever about this.... |
| Posted By: Sherri Posted On: May 29, 2002 Views: 3199 | Yes Infinities I could go on forever and ever and ever about this. BTW, thank you for responding to my query, my earlier post must have ended up in the parallel universe somewhere (perhaps the land of socks lost in the clothes dryer). Consciousness is reality, and since there are no ways to measure or limit consciousness this whole arguement is meaningless (unless reality is clarified to be only a material and measureable *thing* using mathematics, which therefore defines and limits the scope). One example is that I tried to post and it did not show up (like it should)... perhaps human error was involved. Fortunately I asked you to fix it, you did, and now we're able to carry on our discussion. This process could have been different in a virtual infinite variety of ways. However, most of us could have predicted the course of events that we are now witness to. Besides, we do we have the only universe? Who says there are not others? Why do I think no one else is inside my consciousness? As long as there are questions, there are an infinite number of possibilities. Sincerely, Sherri |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 31, 2002 Views: 3196 | RE: No infinities Hi Sherri, I agree with your remark that there could be an infinite number of possibilities, and your remark that consciousness is reality. I also happen to think that there are an infinite number of ways with which to end up with only one sock, with or without the aid of a drier (or a stupid sock loving dog in my case). As you say, there may be an infinite number of universes, but who could know such a thing? (smirks to himself). I only refer to our universe in my argument on infinities in order to avoid mere speculation. I also only refer to 'real' things that are measurable, and consciousness cannot be 'counted' even though it is through consciousness that we perceive reality, but we cannot count it independently of people. And possibilities are not 'real' objects either. As it happens, nothing you have said contradicts any of my remarks on infinity, you are just looking at it from a different perspective, one that I will not go into here as it is outside the scope of this argument. But there is one way of counting infinite possibilities, watch the number of manoeuvres a women makes when attempting to park her car in a supermarket parking slot! Only kidding, honest! The 'reality' that we live in may just be the most likely possibility of an infinite number of realities, that being the case then in one of them you will fly over from the States and wack me with a baseball bat,and in one reality I shall duck, and in another get flattened. However, in this reality, I do not know what your reaction will be, but guess both of the above to be very unlikely. Are they all equally 'real' though? Or is this the only real one, and all the others never materialise? The possibilities are infinite........ Best regards, Keith |
| Posted By: corson Posted On: Jun 6, 2002 Views: 3187 | RE: No infinities Nice website.. I also have fooled myself into believing that i alone ponder the unanswerable questions of life-- I have grown to find that many people do and i commend them on that-- This site tries to stay foccussed on a topic and examine it fully-- i have many comments but will stay on topic.. I enjoyed this section-- I think that the arguement is sound-- I will agree that our universe is finite-- But only in a imaginary way-- as arbitrary as the lines we draw on a map of the world-- Interesting as the example of a beam of light not being able to draw a straight line through the universe was. It did not answer the burning question. A question dismmissed as not being worthy of discussion-- IF we could travel in a straight line outwards from earth-Directly through any space time principles WOULD we ever reach and end?? And what would be there? We always examine these questions from the perspective of being on EARTH. If we are calling our universe the maximum distance a beam of light can travel before being curved then its finite--But that does not mean that our universe ends at that point--There has to be something after that--- I can not say that my mind is any less boggled by the infinity concept even by agreeing to the theory that our universe is finite as defined by the speed of light--- My mind still burns to know HOW CAN SOMETHING NEVER END?? Forget all earthly and mortal thoughts-- How can something be infinite -- AND if it is FINTE something still has to be around it -- Just as i creation theories of our universe interest me they still dont answer the question of how was SPACE no matter how infinite created and what was there before that-- How can something have always been there? I find it amazing we can so easily dismiss these unaswerable questions-- Because regardless of whether they can be answered or not they are still the most interesting questions in life and i am always interested to know how people deal with them -- AND i know that i am not alone in that.. C |
| Posted By: corson Posted On: Jun 6, 2002 Views: 3184 | RE: RE: No infinities I guess i was correct that i am not alone in pondering the idea of how could something always have been there. I just reads keith's theory on nothing which contains his thoughts on the questions i posed above.. Very well written. I would suggest that if the size of the universe in keiths theory is limited to the space time continuem i disagree with him. Not about his theory of an infinite nothing containing our universe but rather how many so called universes it surrounds.. Keiths infinite nothing is exactly what i meant by white space. A topic i often discuss when blindingly drunk.. I think i will have a drink and a silent toast to Keiths site right now-- How could something have always existed? Isnt nothing really something? Such questions -- cheers C |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jun 15, 2002 Views: 3178 | RE: No infinities I agree with corson that the best way to view infinity is when blind drunk. I tend to find infinity at the bottom of a whisky bottle. However, when sober, I find the subject deeply perplexing and I also cannot grasp the idea of something going on forever, and ever, and ever.....time for a drink. |
| Posted By: Sherri Posted On: Jun 16, 2002 Views: 3173 | RE: RE: No infinities I agree.. especially if we're looking for parallel universes, I think they're easier to see when we're seeing double. Besides, the boundaries between realities and consciousness tend to blur, the possibilities are even *more* endless! Cheers! Sherri |
| Posted By: Mir Posted On: Oct 3, 2002 Views: 3139 | RE: No infinities Hello, I think I am going mad.... Ever since I was 12-13 years old I've been thinking about the original of the universe, God(s), religions, and who I am... but now at 25 I constantly think about these.....I often go into deep thoughts while at work, and these unanswered questions are crippling me. I see people who are busy with their daily lives without any care , but I just can't do that. What if we're here to accomplish something, what if I am not supposed to be doing what I am doing or what if I have to do something before I die? I mean who am I? I didn't decide to come here or to be in this body! should I follow a religion? but not any of them convince me throughly....I am afraid I am gonna end up in a mental hospital. Or should I just get on with this stupid daily life and wait, maybe I'll know after I "get out of this existance/universe." but I am afraid that might be too late to find out. thank you for your thoughts. |
| Posted By: Corson Posted On: Oct 4, 2002 Views: 3134 | Mir I can totally relate to your post.. I thought you might like to hear how i deal with your situation. First of all realize one unfortunate fact.. IN your lifetime you will never have your questions answered.. I hate to say that but its true.. So how does a person deal with that. Well it can go one of two ways.. You can sit around and hope that you stumble into whatever you are "Supposed" to be doing in life.. IF there even is such a thing.. And would you even realize it when you found your destiny?? Who is there to tell you that you did find it?? OR you can free yourself.. Realize that maybe there is no grand scheme of things and try to enjoy your life as much as possible.. IF your future is entirely up to you... And no matter what you do someday you will die and thats IT.. Well then you have nothing to fear and should live your life to the fullest.. GO for whatever dreams you may have.. Try to overcome all your human fears and just go for it.. Dont worry about failure because in the end it Matters Not.. One thing that i can guarantee you .. When you are enjoying your life you tend not to dwell on the impossible questions so much.. You become on of those sheeplike people that bother you so much.. Except that you are not living in ignorance. You are just plain happy.. .And I think that is all you should focus on.. Trying to find happiness in whatever people or interests you can... That way you dont let life pass you by... Its never to late to change your life fully and completly.. I finally did it and i am 32.. Your mention of religion may be the toughest part of the question.. All i can offer is this.. You can't MAKE yourself have FAITH in anything.. You either do or you dont.. Even if you do choose to be in a religion you have some worldwide odds stacked against you that you picked the right one.. SO learn all you can about every religion.. Read up on them. .Study them.. Be informed..its very interesting stuff.. Also nobody can be sure that there is no supreme being behind this world.. If you do study all them you see the intellectual flaws all relgions contain..THEY are man made after all But what they all boil down to is being a good person.. So just do that.. Dont do anything that would exclude you from any afterlife.. There is no harm in that.. Thats my advice,, ponder but dont be comsumed by your thoughts.. They can be used as a cop out for not being happy.. Try to find all the happiness you can... Live a good life be more informed than people who are strict believers in one religion.. Know about them all... and just live... Thats it MIR just live YOUR kind of life.. Do the best you can .. |
| Posted By: Sherri Posted On: Oct 4, 2002 Views: 3129 | RE: YES infinities Hello Mir and Corson, and Keith, this is a thoughtful group... Mir, thanks for posting your feelings and bringing my attention back to this enigmatic discussion. As a matter of observation, this is a reflection of reality, isn't it? It all depends on where we focus our attention. For instance, what if at the end of the day I think back on my remembrance of the day and say, "well, that was an utterly forgettable day." Chances are I'll forget all about it and keep on experiencing forgettable days unless I focus my attention differently. I could say, "Today is a day I will remember." And I go through my day with my consciousness actively focused on remembering everything about that day. Maybe I'll even make it really memorable by collecting a thing or two, taking a picture, or writing about it. Maybe in my effort to make my day memorable, it will become memorable for someone else too. To your question, "what if I am not supposed to be doing what I am doing or what if I have to do something before I die? I mean who am I?" I wonder about those kinds of questions all the time. I wonder about that right now as I sit here writing to you, I have no idea if you're a guy or a girl and have never heard of or from you before, I should/could be doing something else but the one thing I AM doing is writing to you. And, because of this we have actually created something here worth experiencing, at least I could hope so, and our day will be that much more memorable because of this. Corson, I really appreciate your thoughts on this too, I am glad to hear that at the age of 32 you have been able to change your life fully and completely. I'm 46 at the moment, I think, at least that is what I've been told. I cannot count the number of times my life has changed fully and completely so I could be younger or older, who knows? Time is relative and our reality is actually made of what is memorable and where we choose to focus our attention. The interesting thing is that life changes *with* every moment, completely, and so THAT is something worth remembering. Religion, well, Keith, perhaps you should open a whole new discussion for this one because it has absolutely nothing to do with realities. Religions are basically a scrapbook of memories of who said what that was memorable, and collected from so many different collections of what one might remember, there is just an *infinite* number of religions and ways of looking at them, right? Corson, I think you are right on with your recommendation, study them all, it is utterly fascinating to experience the wonderful diversity of humanity in our quest for the divine. I've got a fascination going now for the Essenes, especially now that the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi scrolls are mostly translated and becoming available. There's nothing like a good audit of the books to see how things add up. Faith, on the other hand, has everything to do with reality. Faith is all about feeling, what makes sense, a very experiential thing, faith. Don't let people tell you whether you have faith or not, everybody's got it. The confusing part comes in when people try to describe it for you, and help you find it. This can start at a very early age, and so I think a large part of recognizing faith can take a whole lot of unlearning, and the only way to do that is through learning what you want to unlearn. One way to recognize faith is when you experience a thought that stays with you and resonates through you, it sort of enlarges your own thought. For instance, I could say that I think the secret to all faith and religion and experience is summed up in the suggestion to "Love your neighbor as yourself." Now, isn't that such a huge concept? Wrap your mind around that one for a while, it takes me everywhere! Little doors closed in my consciousness start flying open when I think I can really grasp the implications of that thought. I have not felt isolated or alone since I have recognized this concept. What is the reality that this thought helps me resonate to? ...my own faith? ...that enlarges my own thought? Recognition that we are all one, and I am not alone; two rather interesting dichotomies that I think are in the seed at the center of all creation. Well goodness, I have turned this into a regular litany. I guess what I'm doing here this afternoon is flexing my own mental and spiritual muscle for another "reality" that I am wrestling with. I suppose it would be good to get off my duff and flex some physical muscle as well. Just know one thing, you are not the only ones who think on these things all the time! Thanks for letting me share my memories and experiences, let me know if you recognize anything that *resonates*. Sincerely, Sherri |
| Posted By: Al Nigro Posted On: Jan 13, 2003 Views: 3064 | RE: No infinities My comments stop here! No Infinities, see ? |
| Posted By: Al Nigro Posted On: Jan 13, 2003 Views: 3063 | RE: No infinities Mathematics! ****! Come on people the universe is more complicated then mathematics. How about perception? Thats what in the end we believe in anyways, perception. Al |
| Posted By: Sherri Posted On: Jan 19, 2003 Views: 3054 | RE: No infinities Hi Al, thanks for your enigmatic reply. Are you saying that infinity is infinite or that it is not? I had to revisit the question... "Do you believe our universe contains any 'real' infinities other than in mathematics?" Interesting. If our universe is utterly measurable, through mathematics, per se, than would not our experience of it be measurable? This could be an interesting argument for those inclined to such nonsense as predestination and astrology and reincarnation. Or would these infinities be outside of the infinity of mathematics....? Keith, are you proposing that there might be something like parrallel infinities, or dimensions of infinity, or perhaps other infinities altogether? Which brings up another interesting infinity, language, which really isn't very mathematical from what I can understand. It sorta grows on its own, sorta like life and genetics and mutations and its infinite variations. Perhaps these are just quasi-infinities, sorta like quarks but perhaps we need another category of infinities to fit it into the proper perspective. Sincerely, Sherri |
| Posted By: Carl Rofe Posted On: Jan 19, 2003 Views: 3051 | RE: No infinities There could be an infinite number of possibilities, but only a certain "set" of possibilities exist at any one time!? |
| Posted By: Al Nigro Posted On: Jan 20, 2003 Views: 3045 | RE: No infinities, maybe Sherri, Wow Im sorry for that overly excitable response. I had more then a few glasses of wine that night. Ok, you said, If our universe is utterly measurable, through mathematics, than would not our experience of it be measurable? I dont think it is possible to measure ones experience especially when talking about infinities. How can it be possible to measure each one of our memories and experiences as they change all the time depending on how we feel that day or who we talk to or what we learn. Hell, even if we remember them at all. It seems (infinite) Hummm? Can we predict how many times a coin will come up heads or tails? Yes. We ask mathematics to give us the answer using probabilities. But if I rethink Infinities and the fact that we enjoy free will, I would now say yes Infinities could exist at least when it comes to the self aware thinking brain. CLICK ON PAGE 2 FOR CONTINUATION OF THIS TOPIC |
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