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| Posted By: Carl Rofe Posted On: Feb 2, 2003 Views: 903 | RE: No infinities That immense brain power thing and all that was crap, i admit. If you like i'll drop the whole issue. Fair enough, so most people dont think infinity is real. So whats this about the universe expanding forever? The entropy concept when everything goes dark and cold, or whatever you want to call it? What was that about the recent analysis of thermodynamic equations that suggests the speed of light may be changing over time? If it's speed is suggested to be changing, then the wavelength should also!? Then the energy of light waves is changing? Hey Sherri, have you sometimes notice, when you're having a dream, that when the dream doesn't go the way you want it to, you feel like you can almost consciously control it, only as soon as this possibility arises, you wake up? I also noticed that sometimes, after you wake up in the middle of the night, you feel as if the dream hasn't finished. A weird feeling. Ever experienced that? I hope these questions are more suitable? I'll stop the crap now, ok? |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Feb 2, 2003 Views: 901 | RE: No infinities The expansion of the Universe, regardless of whether or not it continues for ever, shows that the Universe cannot possibly be infinite. I think that should be obvious, a thing cannot be both infinite and expanding. The idea that light speed may have slowed over time is at this stage very speculative, and according to the researchers themselves there are are plenty of alternative explanations that would explain their findings. So far the findings have not been duplicated elsewhere, the software need checking, the equipment needs checking and it needs independent verification. It's a wait and see situation. Keith |
| Posted By: Al Nigro Posted On: Feb 2, 2003 Views: 899 | RE: No infinities Keith, You said a thing cannot be both infinite and expanding. Umm, you had me thinking about that for a while but that can also be an argument for an infinite universe. Wouldnt an expanding universe be the definition of an infinite universe? Whos to say if the expansion will ever stop and then the universe would in fact go on for ever. Al |
| Posted By: Carl Rofe Posted On: Feb 2, 2003 Views: 896 | RE: RE: No infinities It would be correct to stay a region of space is made of an infinite number of points in that space (and time) region, wouldn't it? If the universe is expanding, then what's happening to those points? A point has no dimensions, doesn't it? It's 0-dimensional. I mean, nothing can exist without having dimensions surely!? So how can (if this is right) a point expand if it has no dimensions to do so? No energy can exist in a point because a point cannot "contain" anything. A point is made of nothing. Hope that's not too rough. A point is not measurable, is it!? |
| Posted By: Carl Rofe Posted On: Feb 2, 2003 Views: 895 | RE: No infinities Another thing about points: Say you have 2 regions of space with identical shapes and properties, only one is, say, twice the size of the other. How many points are there in each region? An infinite number right!? How can they have the same number of points? infinity = infinity, fair enough. 1 x infinity = 2 x infinity. Um, okay, infinity is infinite, undefined and goes on forever, so multiply & dividing doesn't make that much sense physically. Okay, so maybe it's nonsense to do so. Um, no number of points in that regions, because infinity is not a number. A point doesn't exist. But there is such a thing. How can a point exist? It does!? A point is nothing!? An infinite amount of points is an infinite amount of nothing!? A point is not an "amount" of something because a point doesn't phsically exist!? How can a region be made of an infinite number of points them? Damn! 1 x 0 = 2 x 0 = 0! 0 = infinity??? Wohow. What's space-time really made of? Quantum fluctuations of whatever they call'em? Particles going into and coming out of existence? How the hell can energy cease to exist? Implode? aaagh! And what causes it to implode in on itself? What is meanto have been the cause of all this? If there was no cause, there was no effect!? The universe (ALL that is) has to exist in order to have a reason to exist! What does the universe need to do to itself? again..augh! Anyone? |
| Posted By: Sherri Posted On: Feb 2, 2003 Views: 894 | RE: No infinities Carl, I would say you and I wonder on similar thoughts. Perhaps the difference is that rather than perceiving zero as nothing, to me it is a portal...but this would digress from our topic. A pretty bright guy suggested to me: "Did you know that on the scale of the smallest known particle to the size of the universe that human beings fit exactly half way if you keep doubling the leap in size?" This measurement demonstrates relativity, doesn't it... as far as one can go in either direction is the limit of all that is. This would suggest a rather, uh, egocentric universe, wouldn't it? Sincerely, Sherri |
| Posted By: Carl Rofe Posted On: Feb 3, 2003 Views: 891 | RE: No infinities Hi Sherri, Ah, yeah, i guess. The thing is that i dont (even if this strays from the topic), see the time in space-time as the one on your watch. If you think about a so called centre of the universe, then all wave functions (hope you know what that is) at the point f(x,y,z,...,n)_t(0,0,...,0) have linear vector functions, because they are not affect by psychological length and time dilation. (The centre of the universe doesn't move life you like; even thought it does). The vector derivatives of these wave functions, which have no domains, are constants. Though i would go on for ages here, i'll stop myself. Example: All events on a video being played occur at the rate of play of the video. That's how i view time. Add on speed, and things physically happen at the same rate in particular dimensions, only not all. That's where dilation comes in .I dont how much sense this makes to you. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Feb 3, 2003 Views: 890 | RE: No infinities Carl, Youn are doing another of your classics. You begin with a false hypothesis, present it as a given fact, and then go on to draw some remarkable - but totally incorrect - conclusions. You seem to have a gift for this. You refer to the Universe as being made up of an infinite number of points, and then go off on one of your over excitable excursions with Alice in Wonderland. The Universe is NOT made up of points. A point is only a description, it describes a location. 'Points' are not the building blocks of anything. The rest of your comment, and the one after, collapse after this rather obvious realisation. Your comments on "linear vector functions of the Universe" are total b*****ks. Who are you trying to kid? |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Feb 3, 2003 Views: 889 | RE: No infinities Hi Al, You ask about the expanding Universe and infinity. First of all, totally ignore the comments from Carl, they are inaccurate, and are just his usual big bag of hot air stuff. To be infinite means to be all there is, it has no limit or boundary and is uncontained. As the Universe is expanding it does not meet these requirements. A thing of infinite size could not possibly be growing, or how could it claim to be infinite when it is still getting bigger? Okay? |
| Posted By: Alice in Wonderland Posted On: Feb 3, 2003 Views: 882 | RE: No infinities Well I might be living in Wonderland, but I am having a hard time relating to your version of "real" that excludes actualization, or recognition, which is our comprehension of our world. You have defined the universe: The entire universe is one, vast, complex organism. Every star, galaxy, planet, atom, person, are all inter-linked parts of the one same universe. We are the universe. I especially like the "organism" concept, as a life-sustaining. Creating an argument that reality exists independent of vitality or awareness is the equivalent of the annihilation of the universe. Which could happen, I guess.... As you suggest, the bigger argument is whether the Universe exists independent of our experience of it, but the other side of this argument is whether our experience can exist independent of the Universe. If our thoughts interact with matter, which physicists are pondering along with us, the anthropic principle, then I suggest the dynamic we experience is the result of how our mind shapes our environment. Here's a question: How much do the laws we observe in "reality" relate to what takes place in our consciousness? As our physical beings grow in substance, take on life and then die, what about the energies of our thoughts? Does consciousness have energy? Are there natural laws of consciousness? Without the physical body, does consciousness become incorporated into some type of ecosystem, does the mind retain distinction or does consciousness revert to some elemental level of definition, similar to our earthly elements? Perhaps if the universe continues to expand our consciousness shall expand accordingly. Or contract, or do whatever it does, its an organism, right? Sincerely, Alice |
| Posted By: Carl Rofe Posted On: Feb 3, 2003 Views: 880 | RE: No infinities I'm not kidding anyone. They are assumptions, yes, even if i dont say so. Like many things. You make the assumption there will be a tommorrow. So do i. "There will be a tomorrow." A clear assumption, even if not expressed, and regardless of common sense. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Feb 4, 2003 Views: 876 | RE: No infinities What are you saying Carl? That because we assume there will be a tomorrow then that makes it okay for you to make a statement that is patently wrong, claim it is a given fact, and go on to make remarkably colourful but totally false conclusions? That's okay is it? We are expected to listen to your garbage, be fooled by it, accept it with all its faults and inconsistencies, all because we assume tomorrow will come? Take a reality check Carl. Stop coming out with all this non-stop garbage of yours, and then when challenged changing the subject. You really are becoming extremely tiresome. Try a site that has a much younger age group, they might be impressed. |
| Posted By: Carl Rofe Posted On: Feb 4, 2003 Views: 870 | RE: No infinities I'll take that advice then. It's all just thought. No backup. I can see how you address such things that appear to be claims. There is one statement i found on another web site. Even though it's statement, i still need someone elses verification just to be sure: "every cubic centimetre of space contains more energy that the total mass of the rest of the known universe!" Can anyone verify or otherwise? This isn't another false claim is it? I see what kind of comments mostly appear, so you'll only see another genuine question etc if its the type you most expect. As i may have commented, not quite use to this; try better next time. |
| Posted By: Carl Rofe Posted On: Feb 4, 2003 Views: 869 | RE: No infinities Alice in W, Ineteresting. I found another article about what physicists call qauntum realities. Ineteresting story: New quantum facts forced physicists to admit that the world almost certainly rests on some bizarre deep reality. If scientists routinely contact facts which reveal such outlandish realities, life in a modern physics lab must be pretty unusual. One imagines Max, the famous quantum physicist, deciding on Monday morning to face the quantum facts. Donning quantum-resistant body armor, he climbs inside his bubble chamber, waves goodbye to the workaday world, and prepares to enter the mysterious realm of the quantum. Alone in the dark, Max checks his life-support system and the crucial flyback circuit that returns him to ordinary reality. Then, taking a deep breath, he pulls the switch. Max suddenly drops through the world's phenomenal surface into deep quantum reality. Holy Heisenberg! Centuries of Newtonian certainties vanish in an instant. Solid objects melt into the undivided wholeness as he enters the Place Without Separation. Max mixes with the mystery when his subject/object membrane dissolves. In tune with totality, Max creates a new universe faster than light wherever he turns his omnipotent gaze. What's it like down there? Max's sister Maxine says it feels just like Schrödinger's equation, only more so. You've got to see it to believe it. Behind the high-security fences of Max's quantum lab, consciousness creates reality, quantum logic is spoken exclusively, and for the trip home you have your choice of a billion different universes. I believe that our consciousness should be some entity of energy free of bodily restriction, but i guess the physical expression of such a concept, associated with our psychobiological structure, is yet another avenue of uncharted waters. Or is it just around the corner? I won't know. There certainly seems to be something about consciousness. |
| Posted By: Sherri Posted On: Feb 4, 2003 Views: 865 | RE: No infinities Carl, I was under the illusion that we were having a sincere discussion of realities. How foolish of me to think anyone should take my notions seriously. Sincerely, Sherri |
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