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| Posted By: Marc Colon Alsup Posted On: Jan 26, 2009 Views: 687 | RE: Well... That makes alot of sense Kevin. However, history has proved that in the darkest of times, no matter what culture you are dealing with, all turn towards religion. It Has been apart of this world ever since man could think. Any culture will have a believer, and from that, there will always be ideals past down through generations where religion can be reborn. So, sad to say, I dont believe it will dissapear in this life time or even in the next. Sorry Kevin. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jan 26, 2009 Views: 685 | RE: Well... I only wish you were right Kevin, but I am not so optimistic as you in your belief that religion will gradually die out, I think its here for good. Time will tell. |
| Posted By: Stethoscope Boy Posted On: Jan 28, 2009 Views: 680 | RE: Well... In a very long time maybe, but I believe the only way humans could part from religion is by the increase of intelligence, hopefully from evolution (that is if their actuelly is no God). Thats why I said with the state of intelligence the human race is at right now, religion will never leave. Even if christianity dies out over thousands of years, a new religion will arise to suite the needs of the present people. |
| Posted By: Kevin Posted On: Jan 30, 2009 Views: 675 | RE: Well... I was not talking about any near future. I mean just think, if we are still around 500 years from now how advanced our knowledge and technology will be. I am guessing that the vast majority of people in this time would believe it foolish we ever believed in religion. When you are imagining the future and what people will be like we can't apply our own ways of thinking into the picture. Just imagine a person from 500 years ago imagining what the world would be like today. I am sure they imagined us still believing the world was flat and the earth was the center of the universe and that witches were real. 500 years from now, I very much doubt that religion will still be around, at most a very small minority will still practice it. We are experiencing exponential growth in technology and human development. Could you have ever predicted technology such as the iPhone even 10 years ago? I sure didn't. It has already been well-documented and studied that as countries experience post-industrialization there is a major trend of emancipation from authority (specifically religious authority). If your interested in checking these studies out read Dr. Inglehart's book "Modernization, Cultural Change and Democracy: The Human Development Sequence." He was one of my professor's last semester. It basically shows through a comprehensive study that as countries become more post-industrialized they are much more likely to be democratic and also are much less likely to be religious--yet not any less spiritual, only in a more individual way. Countries like Sweden, Norway, and Switzerland are on the forefront of this trend. Nearly 80% of the people in these countries no longer follow on authoritative religion. The United States should also follow this trend--it is arguably the world's most post-industrialized country--yet it clearly does not. As Inglehart describes a country's cultural heritage as a major impact on it's values. Yet these cultural influences do not last forever and as I stated earlier WE HAVE NO IDEA what our human culture will be like 500 years from now. Despite this, I strongly think that by this time we will have so much knowledge about the universe and our world that religion will be virtually non-existent. For we all know that the overwhelming majority of scientists or people that at least think scientifically are not religious and I predict that by this time in the future, nearly all people will have so much information and so much knowledge available to them that religion will seem so proposterous and ridiculous to even consider. Once again, we can't use our present culture and present ways of thinking and apply them to the future to imagine how the world will be. Sorry that this was so long but I just wanted to make a point. I truly believe that religion will die out over time as our knowledge and understanding of the universe continues to expand exponentially over time. It is only a matter of whether we can survive long enough to reach this point. It may be 50, 100, or a 1000 years from now but it will happen. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Jan 30, 2009 Views: 671 | RE: Well... The debate about God and scientists is an interesting one, many scientists believe in God. The ones that believe in God say that many things about the universe and nature are just too perfect to have happened by chance alone. The ones that don´t believe in God have a bit of a problem trying to explain these things using only science. The human eye is but one example, as is the very precise values of atoms and there components, the smallest of changes in any of the physical values of the universe would have rendered its development to a life creating universe impossible. It makes you wonder. If you are interested the following site sums it up very well and makes a good informative read. http://www.signsofthetimes.org.au/archives/2003/november/article4.shtm |
| Posted By: Marc Colon Alsup Posted On: Jan 31, 2009 Views: 667 | RE: RE: Well... Kevin, What you say does make alot of sense. Five years ago, i never would've imagined the Iphone let alone ten years. But as you stated, there eill be a minority that still believes in God, and there WILL be always just because the world is too stuborn to set all faith in one subject(science) and not think to other possibilities. I believe that once a vasy majority of people take priority on science than faith, people will feel vulnerable because everyone will be following one trend. Think of Highschool. When everyone begins to want to popular or wants to be something that another person is, others will follow that longing. And then there is always that one person in the back of the group that says, "screw this" and comes to school the next day wearing all black, saying they are Emo. As long as the "Emo" kid is around, no one person will follow the other entirely, so religion, though in small numbers, must always be around for the stubborness of mankind. |
| Posted By: Stethoscope Boy Posted On: Feb 1, 2009 Views: 660 | RE: Well... Don't most scientists though that believe in a God just believe in a greater force acting in the universe, not necessarily the God in any religion. Believing in a greater force and believing in a religion can be very different. |
| Posted By: Stethoscope Boy Posted On: Feb 1, 2009 Views: 658 | RE: Well... I than read the article keith suggested. I've heard before of scientists who believe in the creation story. However, I can't help but think these studies are conducted being extremely biased. Why not write a book called Why 2 million scientists choose to believe in evolution. A person without a scientific background would not understand large portions of it, but they would still get the gist that there is scientific evidence out there that supports Creation. Well I look forward to hearing it. And hopefully this time this person doesn't just come up with all the problems of evolution and use that as evidence that the creation story must be right. It kills me how 17 years of being raised in a catholic school system, they have failed to provide me with any reason whatsoever to believe in the religion nevermind creation. Nothings changed sinced kindergarden to highschool, they just tell us its true and everyone takes the teachers word for it. I'm very curious to see what these "50 scientists" have to say on why the creation story in Genesis is correct, and why every other religions creation story isn't lol. |
| Posted By: Kevin Posted On: Feb 1, 2009 Views: 655 | RE: Well... I agree with Stethoscope here. It is almost impossible for a "GOOD" scientist to believe in any religion-based god. Science and religion are polar opposites. For example, a common misconception is that Einstein believed in God, which is technically true but his image of God was not one of a religion it was more like the 'greater force' stethoscope boy brought up. I am currently struggling with this as well. While I definitely don't believe in any religion, for some reason I just feel like there is some universal conscious or force that drives everything. The universe is just so perfect and amazing that when looked at as a whole I guess you could say the universe itself is God and we are all a part of that God. I do not have any beliefs about our origins or why we are here but just ideas. A belief is much more rigid than an idea and ideas change as new information is presented to the idea-holder. Personally, I would be extremely disappointed if all this greatness and perfection in the universe was by mere chance, but if that is the case then so be it; at least we still exist! |
| Posted By: Stethoscope Boy Posted On: Feb 2, 2009 Views: 649 | RE: Well... The belief that the universe is too perfect for it to happen by chance is a very popular amoung many people, scientists and religious people alike. But when you think of the size of the universe compared to us, maybe life isn't so extraordinary. Trillions of stars, and the conditions for life randomly became suitable one planet (as far as we know). I'm not dismissing the idea of a greater force or some sort of god, but I don't think the reason the universe is "too perfect" should be used to exclude the idea of random cause and effect. And how do we know the universe is "perfect" anyway? lol... then again these views can just come down to belief. |
| Posted By: Marc Colon Alsup Posted On: Feb 2, 2009 Views: 647 | RE: Well... I will say, I don't believe in god. but as you said Kevin, I believe, almost feel like there is something out there. And as my knowledge in science has grown, I've come to realize what I believe in, though it is just a theory, obviously, because it is a little out there. Everyone knows that people are just energy buzzing around because of atoms and what not. We see in people both negative, and positive energy. I believe that when people say "Universe" instead of just one, I believe it is seperated in two. Positive, and negative energy. When these two energies clash, matter is formed. I believe the world, our solar system, and everything in it is a product of one of these clashes. So when I say i dont believe in God, it is because I believe in two, Positive, and Negative. Though it is just a theory. But as you said Kevin, or stethascope boy(sorry I'm not sure who said it,) I believe that these Gods are within all of us. So in a sense, we are god, but as equal. As we go through life, we interact with others and feed off there positive and negative forces and learn a little from every encounter we have with other products of these "clashes". It's just a thought. |
| Posted By: Kevin Posted On: Feb 2, 2009 Views: 641 | RE: Well... I didn't imply the universe was so perfect and amazing because life had arisen on Earth stethoscope. I very much believe that life is overwhelmingly abundant throughout the universe. The fact that life is possible even if it is a common thing found throughout the universe is still amazing. Actually I think the more common life is in the universe the more amazing and miraculous it really is, because it seems so improbable. |
| Posted By: Kevin Posted On: Feb 2, 2009 Views: 640 | RE: Well... And yeah that point is interesting. It does seem strange to me that "good" and "evil" people can arise out of the same matter. How can just a few trillion atoms interacting act "evil" or "good". That is what makes consciousness so unique and extraordinary. We are simply made of atoms but somehow develop a way to see, taste, touch, smell and hear other atoms, not to mention even think at all! I wish we could know how it all happens or more importantly why? |
| Posted By: Stethoscope Boy Posted On: Feb 3, 2009 Views: 632 | RE: Well... Ya, I know you didn't imply that Kevin, you just brought it up so I decided to add my take on it lol. I for one don't think I would be dissapointed if I found out the universe came to be by mere chance, however, the more I think about, it seems that there almost HAS to be something more, but maybe thats just because humans can't comprehend something coming from nothing. And as far as we know it is impossible. |
| Posted By: Marc c.a Posted On: Feb 4, 2009 Views: 626 | RE: Well... Another side note on my theory is that when people are born, there's destiny is truly laid out for them, but in infinite strands. Cause and effect plays a phenomenal role here. When we are young, these strands are long, wide, and infinite. The more choices we make, the more strands are elliminated as it does with age also. What ever choices we make determines which strands are to be kept, and which ones to be elliminated. As we progress in life, the strands become more finite. Eventually, all the choices we've made come down to one strand, which will ultimately be our death. I am a firm believer that everything happens for a reason, so when I say that, I mean that the strand I am following has mapped out my life until the day I die. But seeing as how all these strands are interconnected, I have the choice to follow a different path in life which also means I change my "destiny". Yet just another out there thought. |
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