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| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Dec 19, 2004 Views: 939 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Hi there PJ, Thanks for the results of your tests. Although I am pleased to see that the wheel did spin every time for you I have to say that unfortunately I cant take it as confirmation of my thermal theory. What you have done is totally different to what I did! You did not use a pin as I did but used a screw. You placed them in a fridge to cool them down, mine where at room temperature. You used a stove to heat your hands I didnt, I used hot water. You say once it got to 720 degrees.... I dont understand this. If you are in the same room as a stove that is running at 720 degrees that is going to ruin the test totally anyway. What is the 720 degrees bit about anyway? I was only using my hands. I am only working in the range of normal room temp between 60 F and 75 F. Did you test to make certain that there was a 20 F difference between hand and air temp?. That part is crucial! Each and every one of these factors is a variable and they are all different to my test. Any single one of them being different invalidates the test because I said the psi wheel would spin UNDER THOSE STATED CONDITIONS. Although I appreciate the effort you have taken I hope you can understand why your results cannot possibly be used to confirm mine. When looking to find a scientific explanation for any phenomenon it is essential that every experiment is IDENTICAL in every possible respect. If not, and we introduce all these different variables, then any meaningful data will be lost in the fog of noise due to differences in what is being carried out. Sorry to sound so pedantic on this, but it really is important. I hope that others on reading this will take note. But hey, thanks a lot anyway. You took the trouble and I really appreciate that a lot. Thanks Keith PS Yes, as you say, this does only relate to the uncovered psi wheel anyway, which is the most dubious of the TK claims. It could be argued that those who are unable to progress from an uncovered psi wheel just do not have any TK ability? They just think they do but its only thermals? Just a thought. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Dec 19, 2004 Views: 938 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Hi there Placebo, Thanks for your info. Please note my remarks above to PJ. I am willing to bet that you also did not follow the exact steps as I outlined. I bet you never measured your hand and air temp to make certain there was a 20 F differrence. I say this with confidence because I am absolutely certain that if you do follow the directions exactly, the wheel will spin like a top! Confess swine! Confess I say! You will never get away with it! KM the wheel spinner sees all, knows all. Cheers, keith |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: Dec 19, 2004 Views: 930 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Haha, Keith - I confess! Nah, as I stated before, I wasn't convinced I did it exactly right anyway Differences I can name: 1) Material was art tracing paper, not print paper 2) I didn't have a thermometer on hand 3) The size of my pinwheel is about 1 cm larger As I said, I probably got it wrong anyway. I'll try again when I can get it 100% right. And as you said, it may be the case that many of the pinwheel amateurs are not doing it the same way as the more advanced TKers It may be an interesting step forward to categorise and weed out the different methods I would have tried it out this evening, but my car broke down and I wasted hours by an intersection in the city :( Greg |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Dec 19, 2004 Views: 923 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Hi Placebo, Thanks for the info and confessing your dreadful sin. Did I tell you that the penalty for not following the KM pw test code is that I track you down come over and chew your legs off? Not to worry though, you have saved yourself with your confession, this one time. All I can say is that following that procedure it works for me! I am almost certain I am right on this one, and it does offer an explanation of why some can do it, others can't and others can do it sometimes. The variable is the difference in air temperature, it has to be at least 20 degrees F. Who, without a thermometer check, is going to know that yesterday when the pw did spin, the room temp was 2 degrees colder than it was today when it didn't spin? It's still only a theory of course, not even that to be honest, just an idea that seem to fit, for now. It could be something totally different that makes the pw spin! |
| Posted By: Paranoid Jester Posted On: Dec 19, 2004 Views: 908 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Hello again. I don't think I need to repeat the experiment. You analysis is good enough for me. Regards PJ |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: Dec 19, 2004 Views: 900 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Hey Keith I'll try that out for sure, this evening. Assuming it works out - well done ;) As you say, some of us might not be telekinetic after all Though, as you said, it doesn't explain other stunts, like how I moved the straw from a metre away yesterday, three times consecutively. I look forward to see what the next step is going to be. It seems a bit sticky, unless one of us could meet up with you somehow. Greg |
| Posted By: Paranoid Jester Posted On: Dec 20, 2004 Views: 865 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Oh Keith.... I'M SO SORRY !!! Listen, I would like to apologize for such repsonses that you were getting. I know a lot of the guys through the communities for this subject will emphasize the subconcious mind. Personally I wasn't 100% satisfied with that either so that's why I have been trying to see just which scientific explantions we can use to explain these things. You were doing WONDERFUL with what you found out. What you were saying does have merit... when it comes to uncovered psiwheels - it may be the heat from one's hands. A number of skeptics have mentioned that before... what you did was pinpoint the science of the whole notion by adjusting the idea to 20 degrees - which, again has merit. I wasn't ready to deny it. Oh Keith... I hope this doesn't mean we won't talk anymore. If we don't, it has been an HONOR to meet you and I will do everything I can to be as critical with my evidences from here on. You pointed out to me where I was wrong before and I appreciate it much. Thank you again for ALL you've done. PJ |
| Posted By: White Shadow Posted On: Dec 20, 2004 Views: 851 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Keith, Firstly, appologies for the stupid 'magnetic' idea I had - I was obviously typing aloud, and didn't really think about what I was saying. Secondly, I've been inclined to agree with your findings, as it's similar to what's been happening to me - I 'seem' to be deciding direction, but not always, and it spins very fast when my hands are around it, even though I DON'T want it to move! But there are two other things that make your theory fall where my experiments are concerned: 1. I too can (sometimes) move a straw on a bottle or glass - like Placebo's tests (I could put this down to your thermal theory, but it only moves when I'm relaxed and concentrating - ???). 2. (And this is the interesting one) I can rotate the psi-wheel, without thinking, by cupping my hands around it as before, but holding a CD tower case above my hands!! Does the chimney not require a hole at the top for your theory to work?? I suggest you try the second one. I hope you know what I'm talking about - I'm using the cylindrical casing for a stack of writeable CD's (about 20cm tall) held between the index fingers of my cupped hands. Thus creating a gap of about 10 cm where my hands can be next to the PW. I have also managed to get this gap down to 1cm, with my finger protruding inside the cylinder - the wheel will therefore still get some heat from my finger, but the only gap is around my finger on one side of the cylinder. I would be extremely curious if you experience the same thing, as I'm with you that it is not TK, but do not agree with the thermal suggestion. PS. I cannot - no matter how much I try - move the PW when there is no gap in the cylinder (ie. it is placed firmly on the table around the PW). WS |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: Dec 20, 2004 Views: 835 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Hi Keith, This sudden turn of events has left me incredibly frustrated, angry and saddened. I really felt we were making good progress here. Expecting you to just 'believe' its the subconscious is indeed unrealistic. We all appreciate our different positions of belief here, and are simply trying to get an understanding of an anomaly that neither side understands at present. As such I completely understand your decision to quit. And in that vein, the argument I have is that you have lumped those emails as being representative of all of us. Not at all. Those emails became a 'You Cant Disprove TK' topic, and that is certainly not the focus of this project I felt this project was about investigating it as we can, and determine what we can about telekinesis. Working in a collaboration that is unique (to my knowledge) By discovering that the thermals around the pinwheel do in fact cause rotation of the pinwheel, we already have something to be cautious of! Is that not a benefit to what we know already? BTW, I performed your mug test, and confirmed it to be accurate. Perhaps what I'm saying is that this doesn't need to be about ppsociety.com at all. It doesn't need to be about any particular person either. I'm asking for your willingness to work with selected people if necessary. We could just go on and try to experiment on our own, but as eg. PJ's articles have shown, your understanding of physics principles far outshadows my own. My physics is not at a level where I would feel completely comfortable with the conclusions I draw - and that was what attracted me about this project. I hope you understand my argument as to why I wish this project to continue. I also understand that we have come to a point in the project where it seems difficult to continue without some important decisions. Perhaps this has added to your frustration? Should you still feel unmoved on your decision, I thank you for the good you have done thus far :) And hope that I can at least email you of my experiments in future, to prod you for your thoughts? Regards Greg PS: If you're interested some time (I know you're on a Mac), I made a video of my mug/pinwheel test. It was very successful ;) http://www.dreamviews.com/mods/Placebo/SomeTKfalse.wmv |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Dec 21, 2004 Views: 804 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Hi Guys, I have had a re-think. If you read the main TK page you will see I have added another page. If you can let me have any info as requested that would be great! Thanks Keith |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Dec 21, 2004 Views: 797 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Hi White Shadow, I have been thinking about what you were saying regarding the CD tower. Having a 'chimney effect' obviously helps, you only need get someone to stack up their hands on top of yours to double the 'chimney' height to see the proof of that. If I understand your description right, then you are placing your hands in a similar position to mine - as shown in the photo - then placing the CD tower on top of your hands, thus making a nice tall 'chimney' but one with a cover over the top! I can see why that would still work. The hot air rising up from your hot little hands will still rise up, but not up the chimney, but outside it. This will make no difference, it still rises and cool air is still drawn in. Okay with that? What do you think? I tested it myself, but my CD tower is only half the height, but the wheel did rotate still, but not as well as it did without it. Maybe with a taller one such a yours some of the warm air does rise up inside the tower high enough to cool down and fall to the bottom, making a longer route but still drawing in cooler air to create the now world famous Keith Mayes Effect! Either way, It still looks like a load of hot air to me :0 Keith |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: Dec 21, 2004 Views: 791 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Hi Keith, Thank you for thinking the situation over - it would have been a sad thing to stop the project so far in, and yet so early. I'm glad you've decided on the straw, as that seems my relative comfort zone at the moment. The pinwheel for me was always very limited (180 deg turns most of the time, at best) Unless I use your method of course - but that would be 'cheating' :P Speaking of the pinwheel: I was in the computer server room yesterday while waiting for a database operation. I noticed the aircon, and it said '16 degrees C' So I decided to try out your method in such a perfect room for it. I whipped up a makeshift pinwheel, found a tack, and stuck it on top of something (I forget). Placed my fingers around the pinwheel, in the same pattern as I used for the mugs ... and taadaa... it spun. As fast as it had with the mugs in fact. I don't need more proof than that :P (I know it wasn't 'me' because I can feel the difference. Besides I had no control whatsoever) As you said though, it only demonstrates a very specific situation. But as you also said, one step at a time :) Regarding the straw: It will take some thought to come up with a particular situation for the straw that we can experiment with. I tend to change my hand positions from time to time... What I often do, is carefully balance the straw on something like a medicine bottle (on it's side). The straw faces away from me, 90 degrees to my shoulders. I place my hands about 5 cm away from the straw, in such a way that my left hand for example is to the left of the furthest end of the straw - about 2cm from the end of it. (the 5 cm varies all the way up to no hands and 1 metre away - this is what I use to get into the practice. We could probably start with proximity of a few cm. One step at at time :) ) My right hand is on the other side of the straw, on the end closest to me (about 5 cm away from the straw - along 'my shoulder's axis' and 2 cm from the end of the straw along the 'straw's axis') Axis meaning to cut line along that path, and move on that line as a 2D 'dimension' This looks the same as the left hand, but in reverse. My hands are angled in such a way that the fingers point away from my body at a 30 degree angle (approx) and point at the straw - Turning my wrists so that my thumb is more or less parallel to my shoulders (Relaxed fingers). My hands are also angled slightly such that my index finger is higher than my little finger. Once you've gotten that sort of position, I straighten my fingers a bit more (I don't curl them much). Is there any format of video you would be able to view? I could perhaps re-encode them for you to view... Seeing the video would be the simplest way to explain what I tend to do. Regards Greg |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Dec 23, 2004 Views: 846 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Hi Placebo, Thanks for your confirmation of the air temperature making such a big difference with the psi wheel and for trying out the hot mugs test and confirming that also. So far so good! Regarding the rotating straw test. Thanks for all your info on that. I have run into a problem with the test in that I have not yet found a 100% sure way of eliminating static, unless I can find some paper straws. You can read all my results so far. BTW, I have re-made the test pages, you will need to start out from the main TK page. I have made a suggesting, please let me have your thoughts on it. Thanks again, Keith ps. If we do not communicate again beforehand, have a happy Christmas! |
| Posted By: Placebo Posted On: Dec 26, 2004 Views: 826 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Hey Keith I haven't had much time for practice or experiments lately. Today took me a while to get back up to speed again. I'll take a shot at your suggestions soon. Tomorrow most likely. Perhaps tonight. Thanks for the xmas wishes. I don't celebrate, but had a great day all the same :) Hope you had a good one? Greg |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: Dec 27, 2004 Views: 806 | RE: Theory for TK proven! Hi Greg/Placebo Tonight I was at my friends house so I was able to use her pc to look at your videos. I looked at the ones where you rotated the straw on a bottle, I was unable to view the toothpick on water one for some reason, it just wouldn't open. Anyway, the rotating straw video. What I saw on your video was exactly what I was doing with my straw, you would be unable to tell the two apart, the movement of the straw is absolutely identical in every respect. When I get my digital cam corder soon I will post my video so that you can see for yourself that it is identical to yours. To be honest, I have to say that I am a little disappointed in your video, I had thought it would be somehow more convincing. As it happens It shows nothing more than the effects of static, and I am VERY surprised that you think it is your TK. Further more, I note that in one of your postings you say how much success you had when there was a thunder storm taking place. When there is a thunder storm the air is much more charged with static then normal, and this will result in the straw responding more than normal. Don't take my word for it. look it up. Sorry Greg, but like it or not, nothing you have done has got anything whatsoever to do with TK. I can do it as well as you can, if not better to be truthful, and it has nothing to do with TK, it's just basic physics. I am surprised that you, and others, are fooled by such an obvious thing as static. I realise that at this point, you, and others, are going to lose interest. That is up to you. I can only tell you the results of my tests. If you don't like it I can't help that. Some people don't like the Big Bang theory, That is not my fault either. Facts are facts. |
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