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| Posted By: Nick Posted On: May 21, 2005 Views: 749 | RE: Let's put the record straight >but made under much more stringent conditions then >mine was, making it very difficult to fake, then that >must prove I can walk through walls. Nope, I never argued this, therefore you don't know what you are talking about. >The above is an example of 'logic' as used by Nick >and other tkers. Obviously then, it isn't an example of my logic, since I never argued this in the first place. >Do you honestly think that I am being illogical when >I say that until a claim has been demonstrated to be >true it can be ignored? Nope, I'm just saying that you can't say something doesn't exist simply because it hasn't been proven to exist. That would be illogical. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 21, 2005 Views: 746 | RE: Let's put the record straight Well done Nick! I think that just about wraps it up. Nick now denies everything he has argued about! Despite that he still maintains that it is not necessary to prove a thing exists. It can exist simply because someone claims it does. Amazing! I have little fairies living in the flowers at the bottom of my garden, but I don't have to prove it, it's true because I claim it's true! The point that so clearly escapes your comprehension Nick is this. Pay attention now. I agree that you can't say something doesn't exist simply because it hasn't been proven to exist. That much is obvious. It is also not the point! The point is that those that claim a thing exists are the ones that need to prove that it does exist. However, this argument is a total waste of time because we have gone over it time after time and you have clearly demonstrated that you can't understand it, so there is no point in continuing. Having established once and for all that Nick is a complete imbecile incapable of constructing an argument, I will not bother to respond anymore. Enough is enough. It's so sad it's not even funny anymore. I'll just leave you to it Nick, but will continue to read your crazy postings for amusement purposes. |
| Posted By: boX_of_Rain Posted On: May 21, 2005 Views: 744 | RE: Let's put the record straight Hey Nick, Do you know where I can get some good acid by any chance?? |
| Posted By: Nick Posted On: May 21, 2005 Views: 730 | RE: Let's put the record straight >I think that just about wraps it up. >Nick now denies everything he has argued about! Of course, Keith makes no attempt at showing anyone here where I did argue what he said I argued, and since he has not substantiated his argument, we must conclude that he doesn't know how to create a complete and logical argument. |
| Posted By: Nick Posted On: May 21, 2005 Views: 729 | RE: Let's put the record straight He also hasn't shown why his statement that: Because no one has demonstrated that those stunts are not TK, then they aren't TK. ...is still logical. |
| Posted By: wizard Posted On: May 21, 2005 Views: 726 | RE: Let's put the record straight I don't want to take sides here as I don't have any strong feelings on telekinesis one way or the other. But Keith did explain himself Nick. It is in his first posting on this thread. "My point being that I have demonstrated, and others were able to duplicate by following my instructions, how to rotate a psi wheel and how to rotate a straw without TK. Tkers, on the other hand, have never been able to demonstrate how to do this by using only TK. I therefore have every right to say what I did, that those two stunts are not done by TK. I have every right to continue to say that until and unless someone actually demonstrates that they can do it by TK." Like it or not, his statement is both valid and logical. You need to think it through properly. Anyway, what does it matter what anyone thinks? If you think you have telekinesis that is all that matters isn't it? Why bother, enjoy life. |
| Posted By: Nick Posted On: May 22, 2005 Views: 723 | RE: Let's put the record straight >I therefore have every right to say what I did, >that those two stunts are not done by TK. >I have every right to continue to say that until >and unless someone actually demonstrates that >they can do it by TK." > >Like it or not, his statement is both valid and >logical. Actually, the argument above fits perfectly eith the fallacy of an Argument from Ignorace. I believe on of the examples went like this: >Because you haven't proven that your hair is red, >I can therefore say that it isn't. Like it or not, he can't logically say that everyone who does those stunts is not doing TK just because no one has demonstrated it. That would be illogical. |
| Posted By: wizard Posted On: May 22, 2005 Views: 710 | RE: Let's put the record straight I think I can get to the heart of the problem. Nick, you say that Keith is illogical when he says that as far as the two main stunts are concerned TK does not exist. You liken this to case of the man with red hair and Keith saying the man doesn't have red hair as he hasn't proved it. The point, I think, is this. Keith says, and you agree, that TK has never been demonstrated under test conditions. Everyone can agree on that because it is a known fact. Because of that, Keith believes that gives him the right to say that TK does not exist. You think it doesn't. The main point of this argument rests on just one point, and this is the point that you have to consider. Anyone can claim anything about anything. Keith said he could claim to levitate for example. But without any proof - and in this example a demonstration under test conditions would be required - then nobody can be expected to take his claim seriously. In fact we would be entitled to say he can't levitate. This is the whole point. Those that make the claim have the duty to prove their claim, if they do not then the rest of us are entitled to say their claim is false. It is pointless for anyone to make a claim and then fail to demonstrate it. I could for example claim to be able to walk on water but refuse to demonstrate it. I would not therefore be at all surprised if you said I couldn't do it. Why then do you have such a problem with this when it comes to TK? It has never been demonstrated. Keith is therefore entitled to say it does not exist. What could be more reasonable? This is the argument that you need to address. |
| Posted By: Nick Posted On: May 22, 2005 Views: 702 | RE: Let's put the record straight >It has never been demonstrated. Keith is >therefore entitled to say it does not exist. >What could be more reasonable? Hahaha... Ok, let me run this by myself one more time: You say that since no one has demonstrated it, then you are perfectly entitled to say it doesn't exist. I am practically cracking up. This is so utterly illogical, you can't reason anything out of it. It completely lacks reason, and is by far not reasonable in the least. An Argument from Ignorance is a fallacy, and as such, it can't say anything at all logically or reasonably. |
| Posted By: Zack Posted On: May 22, 2005 Views: 697 | RE: Let's put the record straight I want to enter my two cents. I have learned and studied many theories on pretty much anything. From ghosts to goblins. I have taken the time to think of the logic, and physics involved in most of the unproven phenomenons that are out there. From the little green men to the ghosts in your closet. I am frequent to NASA website, and I have my eyes on the stem cell research. It is interesting how the difference of opinions on the topic of telekinesis. On one hand we have a man of faith, Mr. Nick. Another a man of logic and wisdom, Mr. Keith. The fact is that, you cannot state that something happened if you didn't witness it. If someone told you that it did happen, all it would be is a rumor until it is proved. Human beings are here on Earth to do one thing. Be better than the other. Our goals are to exceed our peers and even ourselves. It is human to dream and want to possess a power that not many have. Flying is a very frequent dream I hear about. And it is our hearts and minds that desire for these things to be true. However, in all my ten years of studying, I have realized one thing. It is impossible to prove anything. The only thing we can prove is that we are here, and we are looking through the eyes of our body. Everything else can not be prove to be fact. They are the impulses of the brain that gives us the illusion of our reality. But we can state fact based on those impulses or we call it physics. So, when you say telekinesis is in fact real. You must be stating that you have witnessed, tested, made sure there are no 'smoke and mirrors' before you can actually tell anyone that it is in fact real. The word Fact is a variable for the individual perception of 'true' which stands for 100% sure. That means if you believe in telekinesis tell an individual that has not prove telekinesis to be a fact will automatically say 'false' as the answer, because it is not 100%, it could be 65% but that is not 'fact'. Example: Sally knows that the mall is closed on Friday (which is highly unbelievable). Sally tells John that it is closed. John can believe Sally, because Sally goes to the mall a lot. But John cannot know for a fact that the mall is closed based on Sally's statement. So he could check for himself to make it a complete fact. Whoa, look they are remodeling the mall, its closed! So Sally is stating a fact after all now it is a fact for John too. If you can do telekinesis and tell me that you can do it. It is not fact, but a rumor for me. I would need to prove it, I would need to get some scientists to come over and see for themselves and get their analysis on the phenomenon. Then I can tell you that it is a fact. Consider this. A person that will make something that a person says into a fact is a weak minded individual. There are people that will manipulate you for their will. Religion, dictators, leaders, republicans (shh). They all know that a lot of people have this weakness and they prey on it. So those that can actually move stuff with the impulses of your brain, then great I'm happy for you. I would advise not telling anyone about your abilities. If you are just trying to make people believe in something you cannot preform or have not been witness to. If you cannot prove that these things are actually 100% fact based on physics. Then please, think it out more. You will never be able to do telekinesis by being a fake, regardless of whether telekinesis is an ability we can achieve. I am not going to rule out based on belief that telekinesis is true. I, like most human beings, desire the ability. And I too, will only except a personally proven fact. I myself, do try sometimes. I do meditate, and I occasionally try to move an object. Nothing obsessive, but I do try. I feel, that those that can do it, will not reveal it. Since I meditate a lot, I know that a person that meditates is much more mature. They know that if they released information on their ability, there would be a level of trouble that would go to secret service, CIA, and so on. Religious cults would be your worst enemy. Old ladies will start beating you with canes. I am being serious. Consider very carefully these statements and I will go away. Would you ask a fat man on how to lose weight? If a tree falls down, and you are not around. Does it make a sound? If someone jumped off of a building, would you follow? |
| Posted By: bubap Posted On: May 22, 2005 Views: 692 | RE: Let's put the record straight Zack, I agree with most of what you say but I will take an alternate postition on your closing. "Would you ask a fat man on how to lose weight?" I am a fat man, and know what? I am actually an expert on weight loss, I just do not have the self dicipline to do it. I think ths question should be, would you ask a person who loves food, has no self dicipline and is fat, how to lose weight? No way!!! "If a tree falls down, and you are not around. Does it make a sound?" Sound is the movement of air molecules based on an aevent. Technically a tree falling and no one there to hear it does not alter the fact that air molecules have moved in responce to the event. So the answer is yes. If someone jumped off of a building, would you follow? Well this relevant, if I were depressed enough, than yes. If I was capable of flying, and I could save the individual than yes. HAHA |
| Posted By: Nick Posted On: May 22, 2005 Views: 690 | RE: Let's put the record straight >If someone told you that it did happen, all it >would be is a rumor until it is proved. Yes, it would be a rumor, but would it be one to the person telling it? I think it would not. The thing is, the dicussion here isn't about rumors, but about someone saying something doesn't exist solely on the fact that it hasn't been proven to exist. |
| Posted By: Keith Mayes Posted On: May 22, 2005 Views: 687 | RE: Let's put the record straight Nice try Zak and wizard. You are both wasting your time though, as is now obvious. In Nick's world you are not entitled to say a thing does not exist if someone claims it does. They can make any claim they like. They can say they can fly, walk on water, levitate, walk through walls, anything at all, doesn't matter how daft it is. You are not allowed to dispute that daft claim and say they can't do it. They do not have to demonstrate it or offer up any proof whatsoever, they can just make the claim. That's it really. What is the point in trying to argue with someonbody who holds that view? Pointless isn't it? Anyway, I'm off now, I''m going to attempt to beat my own record of climbing Mount Everest without oxygen in 2 hours. Once there I will levitate myself back down. It passes the time. |
| Posted By: Bluetears Posted On: May 23, 2005 Views: 680 | RE: Let's put the record straight I havn't read all the posts, and I know this is off topic but...... Wizard, I am a girl. I will sit here and claim to you that I am a girl every time you ask. But do you have the right to say that I can't possibly be a girl because I won't send you pictures of certain body parts to prove it? |
| Posted By: Bluetears Posted On: May 23, 2005 Views: 679 | RE: Let's put the record straight How is nick the man of faith and keith the logical one. THey have both completed the same experiments, just chose to interperate them differently. |
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