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Posted By: Amit Ranjan Posted On: Mar 8, 2004 Views: 712	To Dr. Manish Kumar Man, you are wasting too much your own time as well as of others. Give a break. Only you can understand your own logics. Even, Rajesh is not so annoying and you can see he made plea to make short comments. You do not have any thing to do or nobody listen to you. You may need to check in and get advice of a doctor. You suffer from "Attention disorder".
Posted By: A K Verma Posted On: Mar 8, 2004 Views: 696	To Pravin Sinha Your comments show "How low and hollow you are?". You should be sitting in the company of your new Kurmi leader (Fraud Don), who has amassed so much wealth by defrauding the state, country and poor students. So, just shut up.
Posted By: Dr.Manish kumar Posted On: Mar 7, 2004 Views: 739	pity I realy feel pity for those who rejoice BJP's or Samata's victory. One thing is that i am not sure that it will continue till Bihar assembly polls and other thing is that i don't like president's rule and most important thing is that i don't see any visionary, any better leader available. All of the present day opossition leaders will sink one by one in the social muddle. Without solving it rejoicing on BJP's win is useless.
Posted By: Dr.Manish kumar Posted On: Mar 7, 2004 Views: 725	Who is effected Ulitimately it is only the middle class of any caste who is struggling. The upper clas who has enjoyed the benefits and previledges is still and will remain uneffected either in Bihar or outside Bihar. Lower strata is always bothered about his bread alone, by any means. But the one who can be humbled will be only those who are poor in any caste. Middle class will struggle and find a way for their better living, but poor people will tolerate every thing irrespective of the reason. Even in forward castes there were poors who tolerated the Zamindari of their own caste and the same people will tolerate the revenge of the lowercastes. Even the throtling of the development of Bihar by the present resime has effected more the wellfare of the poors of the society only from any cast. Able people any way come out of the situation.
Posted By: Akshay Posted On: Mar 7, 2004 Views: 715	BJP RIDING A WAVE-A WAVE BACK TO POWER It seems obvious by the recent elections that the BJP is riding a national wave. Victories in M.P., Chattisgarh, and Rajasthan, have proven it. While Delhiites voted for Sheila Dixit because she took credit for the programs like the Metro being built in Delhi, it was actually started with the BJP in power. Delhiites are shrewd as well, and the same people who voted for Dixit, will now vote for the BJP in the national elections starting April 20th. As for Bihar; This may well be the best chance Biharis have of ridding their state of the criminal Lalua and his highly Un-educated charwaha vidayala wife Rabri, and finally get Center-rule, if the BJP comes with a majority. Theory being this, if there is no development under Center-rule, at least the situation will not continue to detiorate like it has been doing as regards to law&order, shortage of power, bad roads, and criminals in power. HAMARA NETA CHAHE KAISA BHI HO- HO THO ATAL JAISA HO......... HOLI MUBARAK HO---JAI BIHAR, JAI BHARAT
Posted By: Dr.Manish kumar Posted On: Mar 7, 2004 Views: 687	Laloojee, development and Bihar Way back in 1991, before Laloo jee could think i had predicted that given the potential of the caste politics in Bihar Laloo is going to stay for minimum of 20yrs and i don't expect his dimissal by electoral process earlier. To my prediction my friend had reacted as "then it will be a total devastation" and i had nodded in yes. Laloo jee always talks only two sentences- VOTE KA RAAJ HAI MAANE KI CHHOT KAAAJ HAI, SAMPRadayik takton se desh ko bachana hai.
Posted By: Dr.Manish kumar Posted On: Mar 7, 2004 Views: 682	revenge I have come across few less enlightened people who talk like taking revenge. I know Rajeshjee didn't mean that. But i just wanted to add, it is shortsightedness to think in that term. Uppercastes as a group is not a result of one day or even one century, it is out come of developmental process of centuries of Indian civilisation and if you peep in to it you may find representation of every caste in it, people have fogotten, they don't want to remember!
Posted By: Dr.Manish kumar Posted On: Mar 7, 2004 Views: 682	menial jobs I also accept the need to bring respect to the menial jobs. It has been so because upper caste people have seen it like that and it may change if they will do it but again for that if uppercaste as a whole start doing those works (an ideal revenge- I know you didn't mean that), then again menial jobs will remain respectless! Anyway i don't see a point in furthering this discussion in that direction.
Posted By: Dr.Manish kumar Posted On: Mar 7, 2004 Views: 675	is it the end? Rajesh jee, i think discussion between me and you has come to an end. Rickshawpulling is nothing, its just a begining, i expect more downward trend for those who don't struggle for their better future. I know Brahmins selling their daughters. Begging has been glorified in Brahminical society, otherwise there are so many doing it and should be hated more than a rickshawpuller. But onething is for sure that occupation comes by selection (PRATIKRIYA EK JEEVAN KASAUTI). You may feel happy for anything which you like, but i don't see a point in your happyness if i am begging. Anyway if you are happy with that i am also happy. But now can you tell me how many more yrs do we need to come out of this standstill on economic front? Can you tell me after how many months the teachers (at least the primary school teachers)in Bihar who include every caste will get payment? Will you please tell me after how many yrs their payment will be regularised? Are you satisfied with the security condition in Bihar? Are you happy with your roads? If not , can you please tell me a way out of these things? Are you happy with the general ignorant attitude of our leaders? Do you feel that they are carrying out their responsibilities? If their would have been a consumer court for their responsibilities, and you being judge in the court, please name the leaders who can come out of your court with flying colours. I have asked all these questions from you because to others appear to be playing politics by protecting some one un-necessarily and they may simply tell that these are not at all problems as one of my adopted younger brothers, a doctor while travelling in a rickshaw commented happily 'BAHUT VIKASH KAILKAI HO'. I expect something better from you.
Posted By: Rajesh Posted On: Mar 7, 2004 Views: 671	Revenge Dr Manish Kuamr, Revenge is very tempting but it is also a slipery slope. It must be avoided. When I wanted Brahmins to take menial jobs I did not have revenge in mind. It was about a society with complete social integration. You pointed out some Brahmins pulling rickshaw. I think it is a welcome development if true. I wish nobody would pull richshaw but if there is a rickshaw puller community then should not it be reserved for the low castes. Everyone, irrespective castes, want to see their children succeed and it depends a lot on family values and culture. Here I do recognize Brahmins for head start. We all know that menial jobs are important and somebody have to do it. Now if the lower castes come to par with Brahmins in term of education then the menial jobs won't be reserved for the low castes. That's why upper castes doing menial job is good indication of social integration. Not to mention about the respect that would bring to such jobs.
Posted By: Dr.Manish kumar Posted On: Mar 7, 2004 Views: 673	Tamilnadu as an example Dear friend, i had given example of Tamilnadu because it has achieved maximum possible change on social front as seen by turn arounds. Mr.M.Karunanidhi a Sc has been in reckoning in the state politics for last more than 30yrs. Here every one in this country interested in social changes should observe the situation. SC/STs have their share but Brahmins are still respected as truthfull, honest, hardworking people. Everyone accepts that life for them is not easy and thus respects them (work culture of Tamilnadu). They have been reduced to ashes in politics, but academically and economically they still have their say. They too have cotinued their social works. TVS is one of the best examples well know to every Indian. Political turnarounds are evident by Jayalalitha being the CM and Karunanidhi supporting Ravana b'cause he was a TAMIL Brahmin. Still Kamal hasan and other people rule the roost. Why Tamilnadu should be quoted is they have made a nice balance between growth -socially and economically. There are antibrahmin fanatics but there are admireres too and they not only out number the fanatics, they play constructive role. I say it has attained the maximum b'cause there are turnarounds. So if some one hopes to revenge in the same coin in a democracy as it was in kingdoms, he/she is as wrong as RSS dreaming to revenge with Muslims; rather more wrong. Again, lets raise ourselves, lets grow, leave behind the bitter things. No, i am ready to any thing to keep you smiling, tell me i will press your legs (i touch feet of my teachers irrespective of their cast and religion) if it is needed to you smiling, and come together work hard to make Bihar and Bihari acceptable in this country and a pride place of Sita and lord Buddha internationaly. Probabaly you don't know how humble hard working Biharis are ill treated just b'cause they are from Bihar. It is not b'cause of Laloo, but Laloo can change it and at present only he can do that. Rajesh jee, you are the only one in this forum having substance to support Laloo jee. But as i had written in very firs post, if there is no development, social change will recoil and will rwmain as an unsuccessful stories. After all to keep your head held high you need bread not only gun and Toddy! I support Laloo for social reasons, i wish, hope and plead for some development works. Till now he has just moved his lips, let him move his hands too. I know in his situation now it is like a don deciding to live a peaceful life but then if he wants Bihar to grow, he will have to do this acrobat, will have to take the risk. It is democracy, i will wait till majority understands the necessity of development over infightings. The sooner the better. It can be hastened by a positive approach by forwards. They should bend to give a hand to their fellow beings.
Posted By: Dr.Manish kumar Posted On: Mar 7, 2004 Views: 675	previledges? But Rajesh jee, you had talked about previledges, previledges are some thing given by others, can't be / shouldn't be demanded, if some one demands, he will lose the same. Now you are talking about occupation, which one can select. Similarity in both of it is that they depend on the person's situation (economic and academic), but occupation may be selected by a single individual on his own; previledges in a democratic society depends on the society in addition to the person's abilities. My experience about selection of occupation is one's determination, background and economic situation (mainly), and about previledges is ability, background, my own activities and feeling of responsibility and social situation. You need to smile my friend. Don't be in haste. Social changes take time and i favor that. It is not that Tamilnadu has not improved. I chalenge tyhat condition of SC/ST in Tamilnadu is better than any where else in India, i adviced the same to one of my frien who had joined as a teacher at OOTY, a Dusadh by caste, but poor chap opted to go back to Barauni! It is matter of selection. One of my SC friend was told to wash the the glass in which he had taken the tea, he broke it and paid for the same, without telling a word, in a peaceful manner. Message was conveyed. Did you understand my friend. I think i should stop frequent visits, or else my wife will beat me.
Posted By: Dr.Manish kumar Posted On: Mar 7, 2004 Views: 671	confusion Dear Rajesh jee, see the result of writing the smaller one. I didn't mean that ultimately process will lead to reser....., i had given an example. Your point that upper caste people should accept..... is well taken, but that a matter of self respect and is a personal identity. That can't be imposed. That is matter of selection. Anyway i can see Brahmins pulling Rickshaw (probably good news for you ) or other different so called low buiseness. But one thing is for sure, you want the revenge! And that totaly depends on others perfomance, not on your efforts. Probably i would not like to go in to such a race. Again, raise youself, everything will look golden.
Posted By: Rajesh Posted On: Mar 7, 2004 Views: 670	Previledges and forward castes Dr Manish Kumar, Let me respond to couple of points you raised.. First, you probably meant that social progress is wrongly measured by the reservation, i.e, a high degree of social justice would result in reservations for Brahmins. My view (so is constitution's) about reservation is that it is only temporary reprieve for the unpriviledged class. I think the process of social justice is already underway as more and more people from lower castes occupy positions of responsibility in government and elsewhere, traditionaly reserved for Brahmins and other high castes. But it one way traffic. Social justice or equality will not be complete unless the Brahmins tone down their expectations and show willingness to take up menial jobs. The upper castes would go the America and England for menial jobs but in India they would be die. Unfortunately the lower castes who get upwardly mobiled or sanskritized (in socieological term) tends to follow the upper caste's footstep. You mentioned Tamil Nadu where half a or more of anti-Brahmin movement failed to achieve the desired objective. I agree with you on this. In Tamil Nadu, Dravida's movement was primarily a movement for and from the intermediate castes. It did achieve some good things with increased representation from the intermediate castes, but it failed to address the Dalit's cause. It is a very complex issue and there is not a silver bullet for cure.
Posted By: Dr.Manish kumar Posted On: Mar 6, 2004 Views: 718	Previledges and forward castes Dear Rajesh jee, i respect your sentiments. As Dr.Lohia (i don't know exactly, i had read in a newspaper - JANASHAKTI long ago) had told once that socialism for a student will be making the student the teacher and teacher the student; making daughter in law the mother in law and vice- versa, so that they can take their respective revenge! But dear friend, Bihar is not the first or only place to fight against social problems. As you have pointed out wrightly, over last 20 yrs they have lost some of the previledges. It has 2 meanings, it took 20 yrs to lose SOME of the previledges; other is why the majority of the previledges are still intact. These has long explanations from my side but in a nut shell; every one of us enjoys some or other form of previledges; and if people keep the pace of development, they will keep the previledges; if people carryout their responsibilities, they will never lose their previledges; if they will give importance to the previledge and not to their duties, they will lose the previledges,; economy is the key of dominance; leader of society will enjoy the previledges; over last 20 yrs some previledges were lost because people didn't do what was expected / due from them. Now this will creat lots of confusions, that's why i wright long ones. Now you see, if we concentrate on JHUKAO the DUNIA, how many more yrs do you want to make every Brahmin eligible for reservations for SCs?(because i don't find an end earlier than that satisfactory to me at least). There are so many states at least Tamilnadu having antibrahmin governments over last more than 40 yrs (don't go behind Jayalalitha) and i don't see much socioeconomic change. There were some political changes that's all. I feel every one of us should try to raise ourselves and not to bring down someone. You too can enjoy the previledges if you raise yourselves, i know there are un necassary previledges in the society but they are any way decaying and surely will not sustain for long in a democratic society. If we concentrate on development like that of Maharashtra, it will solve most of our ills and other social changes may go hand in hand and that will be more sustained. You thanked Mr.Karpoori thakur but forgot many others. For Laloo ji it was the only option left. What i mean to say is for the same reasons of social changes, people from upper castes have given sacrifices which you also should respect; anyway i don't want to remind if you don't want to remember. Yes, Bihar does lag in a social inspiring ideal man. And my guess is untill and unless there is a man of say .... Gandhi's caliber, Bihar will never come out of this infighting. Again this is incomplete but my wife is shouting about uselessness of this wrightings.

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