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Posted By: Ranjana Posted On: Jan 28, 2004 Views: 629	very nice idea Friends, Its very nice to go beyond the problems and discuss the solution.Most of us either making comment on each other or becoming personal. Mr.Kumar and Mr.Prabhat, I really appreciate your words.Suniljee, just to continue your thought I would like to put some of my views here: Whatever problem Bihar is facing now is not due to one person. The root lies far back but certainly Laloo is more responsible as he has ruled for a long time.It is clear that he (Like others) just want to hold the power at any cost and he is taking advantage of the constitutional loopholes.Is it really impossible to seal those weak constitutional provisions for grabing the power.Just take one example, He managed to make Rabri as CM of a state of the people with more than 8 crore population.but has he violated any constitutional provisions? Everyone know who is the real CM but is it good that our legal provision is mute on prevent such issue? Leave the Bihar; there are more than 450MPs from other parts of the country.Do they have bothered to amend the provision for holding a public post for an illiterate person? Friends, Bihar is already having least % of educated people who can really think on the situation but those who can do better are mostly living outside the state and just doing "Intelectual discussion". This is thought without action.Please put your idea what we can do beyond discussion?
Posted By: Kumar Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 660	Dear All Pl. do not use any abusive or uncivilized language in this discussion. All of you seems to be from good family therfore pl. behave in a professional manner. Its my humble request to all of you. Although I differ with Rajesh on most of issues since he is blindly supporting Laloo but one thing I must tell you that Laloo or the so called Backward caste are not the only one responsible for current state of Bihar. People from every caste and religion has contributed to the present situation. In past 65 yrs Bihar was mostly ruled by some Singh /Jha / Sinha ( so called forward class) and what they give to the society is criminals like Munna Shukla, Shahabuddin, Laloo and many more. So just saying that one person or community is great and other is bad does not hold good in Bihar. Of course Laloo is the worst and has crossed all barriers of indignity. Therefore its time for all good people of Bihar (I know there are many ) to get together and build the new Bihar. We must overcome this Laloo mania to make a better future for the generations to come. Pl. keep discussing, come out with new ideas on how to develop Bihar, how to reach the needy people (irrespective of caste and religion). Best of Luck
Posted By: Sunil Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 666	What next Well good discussions and cricisms to each other. This does highlight kind of issues. But can at least one of you propose what needs to be done and how the motivation in the general people will help make Bihar a better and safer place?
Posted By: prabhat Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 550	Hello friends It is always nice to get and to comment on a good logic with nice words.But it is rather unfortunate that many of us like Pradeep is using vulgar sentence without much thought. Pradeep,I don't know how much moral education have u got but will suggest u that please use this public forum in a civilised manner.Whatever bad theory Rajesh is putting here i would say that at least he is bot using slangs or abusing the word as you.Regarding comment on my posting(Bad achha,Badnam bura)you might not have read my last sentence so better not to put my reaction. Shahijee,I am not saying that crime level in Bihar is low. I fully condemn the posting of criminals like Ashok Yadav or elseone like him on a public post.but would like to ask you what a person shall do if he/she have no option to settle at other place like your friend.I too feel distressed when i encounter criminalism but what shall i do to protect myself? Shall I join 'Ranveer Sena' or should seek a refuge elsewhere like you? Neena Prasadjee, I are overreacting with your words but you should remember that people from every casts has contributed to the state and you should remember that "no one outside Bihar and UP even knows that Bhumihar is a cast".what is your idea about greatness of Kayasth and Jhaa in the state? Subhanginijee, Simply I would appreciate your views and words. Friends, I would request you all and some in particular that please use acivilised language and comment peacefully.Please raise over the cast issue and comment positively.Not any person has his absolute theory so just accept if something has said correctly.
Posted By: S. K. Singh Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 535	Rajesh and his logic To Rajesh, First, are you sure your name is Rajesh and not something like Mohammed Atta? While you claim Bhumihars follow Brahmeshwar Singh like icon, don't you follow criminals like Osama like god? By your logic, it's okay to kill men as long as they don't kill women and children!!!! Amazing!
Posted By: Akhouri P Sahay Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 531	Great point by A . K Verma Mr verma has been very eliquont in making his comments in response to Mr Rajesh. He has tried his best to bring good in Rajesh and to some extent it is working. Rajesh may need some more time to heal. It seems to me that some personal injuries of Rajesh is holding him back and does not allow him to think positively about upper caste people in general and Bhumihar in particular. I am not going to ask about your personal pain or suffering by individual Bhumihar or upper caste person, let it go. You become bigger and show them that good thing happened to you and you are a better person today. Somewhere in your mind you have developed this belief that Bhumihars and upper caste people are responsible for the plight and poverty of lower caste. I do agree with you that the poor and weaker people need to be uplifted but I disagree on your approach. They need hands of love, respect, and a path to develop themselves. They do not need support of govt to determine their destiny. We all together make Bihar a better place if we work together in place of hating one another. Social evils are painful things but brave people have always brought changes. The best example is Nelson Mandela, who fought tirelessely against aparthied policies and brought down the White supermacy in S Africa. Dr. Martin Luther Kning Jr. is another great example, who brought changes in American Society and today black people live a life of dignity and produced best athelets, actors, musicians in the world. This can happen to lower caste of Bihar in particular and India in general but by love not by hatred. Remember Good always wins, it may be late. So, Rajesh from today only, become an ambassador of Goodwill and not of Hatred. Good luck.
Posted By: Pradeep Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 528	Rajesh -- cut the crap Vermaji -- no matter how hard you will try to explain the point to Rajesh, he is just not going to listen to it. He has only one motive -- to defend laloo at any cost. He has no point, no agenda, no theory. He has just one aim (like Jehadis) to defend laloo, to portray the deeds of lower caste criminals as the deeds of god, to explain all the robbery and dacoity as the only way to bring equalisation in society. If Rajesh were given Bihar, in place of laloo, he will make it worst than Afganistan while he will be true disciple of Osama Bin Laden. I won't be surprised if Rajesh had a secret meeting with Osama recently. While people of Afganistan were dying of hunger, osama and mullah omar were enjoying palaces with red carpets and chandliers imported from Belgium, and they had decorated the walls with expensive paintings. Laloo and his Rajesh intend to do the same thing to Bihar. All the while, portraying it as the wish of God. Rajesh -- just cut the crap.
Posted By: Rajesh Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 512	Crime and caste Once again I apologize if my comment about "all" Bhumihars taken as dogmatic. There are some good among them. Sahjanand Saraswati is one good example who worked selflessly for landless and downtrodden during 1930s. Unfortunately a large part of Bhumihars consider "Ranbir baba" their icon. I do believe that Bhumihar as community need to do some soul searching. Also, caste discrimination is not practiced by so called upper castes only. Intermedietary castes such as Yadavs also have their share in harrassing lower castes. As Ambedkar had observed, it is "graded" discrimination that characterizes hindu society.
Posted By: A. K. Verma Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 524	To Rajesh Rajesh, I am not defending what Ranbir Sena or his mentor for that reason does, I was making comments or illogical logics, when you said "it is legal to kill men". It is simply absurd and nonsense that killing in any form can be commended. You interpet people's comments in your set frame of mind. You are trying to spread hatred against a community in the name of barbarian acts done by few indivuduals or group of thugs. I fundamentally differ from your opinion. I do not encourage any body to kill any body in the name of his or her caste or social status. Have you ever tried to give your hands of love to any body? It is very easy to bring hatred in innocent people but very hard to show them the future and life beyond these killings. Once you start that you will find yourself in pool of people, who are all smiling and doing their best to live a dugnified life and make the future of their next generation. I am offended by stupid logics and potraying Bhumihars and upper caste people as criminals, whereas just opposite is true. They are busy to make their future working hard and making a better future for their children and grandchildren. You just sing one song that chief of ranbir sena, Barmeshwar Singh defended the actions of Ranbir sena. He is their leader. That is what he does but not you and me. If you are in the same category, then it is something else. Wht try to follow a wrong model. You do not know anybody around you who can show you the other side of beautiful world. Anyway, good luck with your approach. hope your hatred against Bhumihar or upper caste will bring some change one day for good.
Posted By: Rajesh Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 521	Crime and caste AK Verma, My response to this comment of yours : "If a war is declared "Any one is a legal target if he/she is involved in the war". There is no such thing that you do not touch the women if she is fighting with the enemy." Dalit's children who were butchered by Ranbir sena were not combadants. Nor were pregnant women and their unborn child (there were cases where women's womb was cut open). There were intentionaly targeted to spread terror. You are talking like Brahmeswar Singh who defended killing of children saying they profit from Naxalite's loot.
Posted By: A. K. Verma Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 532	Good start Rajesh, You have a very unstable and fickle mind. Although your comments: "I apologize if my comments about Bhumihars offended some. I have many Bhumihars friends and they are all great individuals. But I do believe that as a community, Bhumihars and other upper castes for that matter need work. They must learn to treat lower caste as fellow human being and with respect. This is a culture which allow Ranbir sena to kill women and children. I am not saying that castes in Naxalite groups are perfect but at least they target male adults only like in any legitimate war." was a good start but you got stuck on your stupid theory/logic that it is ok to kill male adults only like in any legitimate war. Do you have any idea of a legal war and its rules. If a war is declared "Any one is a legal target if he/she is involved in the war". There is no such thing that you do not touch the women if she is fighting with the enemy. We have recently witnessed when American women shoulders participating in the war were killed or captured in Iraq. There was not dispute why Jessica Lynch was captured? The Americans never raised the legality of her capture. Rajesh, any kind of killing is bad and a slap on the face of humanity. We can solve all the problems by talking and communicating with each other, respecting each other. The history is full of stories when war was imposed on people and we also know the results. Every time the imposers of war met their fate. So do not start preaching hatred against any community. You accept that you may have many Bhumihar friends, I doubt. Your sick mentality will not allow you to have friends with Bhumihar. By the way, "Bhumihar is Great Community and are Great friends". It is never late. You will change for good, once you will come in contact with them.
Posted By: Neeraja P Sheel Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 528	Rajesh and his nonsense logic Crime and caste "Now how to stop this systematic caste based crimes? I don't think administration or police is answer. It is impossible to tackle even by most efficient police force. The solution lies within the victim community themselves. They have to become strong. Here is a success story. There used to be similar master/slave relationship between Bhumihars and Yadavs, later being victim. Last time Bhumihars ran deadly raid in Yadav's village was Parasbigha in Gaya/Aurangabad district. But for a change Bhumihars got fitting reply in Dohia, a Bhumihar village. Nobody heard of Bhumihar-Yadav group clash after that incidence. This kind of remedy does not look very civilized, but it works. Now it is time for Dalits. In villages of Bihar or anywhere in the country, it is might that matters. It is not America where a single mother can go out vote freely." Rajesh is really mentally sick. No one but Rajesh can make such a stupid arguements in 21st century. It seems he wants to take Bihar in early Barbarian age when the strong man used to rule. No brain was required. One will not be surprised when he will cite the example of African countries, where killings and massacres in the name of tribe is the most common thing. We often see the pictures on TV "how young boys, no muscle on their body but holding gun on his shoulder to kill people from other tribe. We all know what price Africa is paying. Rajesh may also cite examples of Afganistan, where these Talibans and goons of Osama used to kill people and what they have brought to brave Afghan people. I still remember how Afghans were respected for their bravery and how these criminals made their life miserable. It seems he wants to make Bihar as nothing but another terror place in India after Africa and Afghanistan. People of Bihar are smart and they will kick out Laloo and his criminals from their dens and bring prosperity and successes to Bihar. Shame on you and your sick mentality.
Posted By: Rajesh Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 528	Crime and caste I apologize if my comments about Bhumihars offended some. I have many Bhumihars friends and they are all great individuals. But I do believe that as a community, Bhumihars and other upper castes for that matter need work. They must learn to treat lower caste as fellow human being and with respect. This is a culture which allow Ranbir sena to kill women and children. I am not saying that castes in Naxalite groups are perfect but at least they target male adults only like in any legitimate war.
Posted By: S N P Sinha Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 517	Slap on the face of Laloo and his cotorie Dear Subhangini, I can not agree more than what you have written. You have brought a real issue that Bihar is facing under the goons of Laloo. Like you Kajol also pointed out and cited her theory based on News paper report that presently more than 60% criminals are from Yadav community and the reason is obvious. they have a friend in the name of Laloo, who is the greatest leader of all these criminals. The supporters of Laloo will either call you person from upper caste or pseudo intellectual and so on, but we need to bring these issues in fore front so that people will know what is happening in Bihar. Why Bihar is being degraded and unfortunately allowed to be degraded. Why no one is safe in Bihar? Anyway, thanks for asking straight questions.
Posted By: subhangini Posted On: Jan 27, 2004 Views: 512	Supporters of Lalloo please answer Since last 15 years in my village road's condition is still the same electricity still has not come anywehre near. All the dalits and lower caste people are still in the same state. I mean 15 years is enough time to show some change don't u think. Yeah one change is evident though: Earlier all the goons criminals used to go by the name , This and that Singh, Shahi etc. NOw they go by he name this and that Yadav. And dalits are still being treated with similar scorn by these new set of criminals. So what did Laloo achieve other than changing the demography of criminal-class. I am totally at loss, please enlighten me.

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